========================================================================= Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1991 21:01:26 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Peter Fales Subject: Re: Looking for a utility program In article <9108280434.AA15862@cougar> karen%monty@RAND.ORG (Karen Isaacson) writes: >I'm looking for some software that will go through a genealogy database >and tell me about apparent errors: children born before their parents' >marriage, children born before their parents, people who live to be 383, >that sort of thing. > ... ... >My husband uses ROOTS-III, and I also have access to Phil Brown's Family >History System, but apparently neither of these programs has such a >feature. I have written a utility like this for Phillip Browns FHS. Nothing terribly fancy, and some of the checks (like documentation standards) may be of less than general interest. However, it is written in Microsoft C, so it is fairly easy to see how it works and modify it if desired. It incorporates all the checks mentioned above, plus more. Let me know if there is an interest. -- Peter Fales AT&T, Room 5B-420 N9IYJ 2000 N. Naperville Rd. UUCP: ...att!ihlpb!psfales Naperville, IL 60566 Domain: psfales@ihlpb.att.com work: (708) 979-8031 ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1991 12:56:28 TZONE Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Kim Crater Subject: Re: selecting a PC program I also recommend the Personal Ancestral File for your use. Not only could you use this at home but at the LDS Genealogical Library near you and send it to the LDS Library in Utah to be updated at the main source in Salt Lake City. You also mentioned that you are having to re-draw your family tree whenever you need to add others. The LDS Library sells a chart that goes up to 15 generations. I bought two of these charts (one for my original and one as a work copy) and they cost about 75 cents apiece. I strongly suggest the use of this chart as it has helped me tremendously. Good luck!! Kimberly ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1991 09:48:10 CDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Ed Mertes Subject: FRU18.ZIP Uploaded I have uploaded to simtel20: FRU18.ZIP Family Records Utilities (for PAF files) Family Records Utilities (sometimes referred to as FRU) is a program that provides additional features for users of Personal Ancestral File. You can use FRU to print additional reports, make changes to the names and places throughout your database and convert your database to other formats for use by other programs. Ed Mertes ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1991 07:28:42 CDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Ed Mertes Subject: Getting FRU18.ZIP In reference to FRU18.ZIP Kathleen Much asks: > This sounds like a very useful item. Could you tell us what machine(s) > it runs on and whether there is an instruction booklet or online help > available? Not all of us are as computer-literate as the rest of you. > I guess from the 'msdos' reference that it won't work with the > Macintosh version of PAF. Right? Correct, It is a MS-DOS version. You might write the author to see if other versions are available: Steven M. Cannon 1065 West 10210 South South Jordan, Utah 84065 (801) 254-0160 > How can we send for it; for example, will it be on the ROOTS-L > server? Sorry, I don't know what simtel120 means. Is that a mainframe? > How can we Internetters communicate with it, if so? I get to it with an FTP to WSMR-SIMTEL20.army.mil but I don't think you can reach there from internet. There is a file on GENEALOG called ASIMTEL which gives some information on accessing SIMTEL. You can get the file by sending a message to Listserv@vm1.nodak.edu (not roots-l) with the statement: get genealog asimtel in the message body. You can get a listing of all the genealog files available by sending a message to the same address with the statement: index roots-l in the message body. If you're really desperate you can send me a blank disk with return postage and I make you a copy. Better yet contact me first by private E-mail and let me know what you have and maybe we can do an exchange of programs. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ed Mertes 7746 Suffolk Ave. St. Louis, MO 63119 (314) 647-8847 mertes@stl-07sima.army.mil mertes@st-louis-emh2.army.mil Researching: MERTES DREILING JACCOD GIRARD GRAF DEPAUL/DIPAULO REINACHER PLOESSER/PLAZIER CANTER --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1991 14:35:31 EST Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: "Corinne H. Smith" Subject: Re: Graphics Display I N T E R O F F I C E M E M O R A N D U M Date: 17-Sep-1991 02:24pm EDT From: Corinne H. Smith CHSMITH Dept: Audio Visual Services Tel No: (814) 863-3104 TO: Remote RSCS/NJE Network User ( _BITNET%ROOTS-L@NDSUVM1 ) Subject: Re: Graphics Display Lori, you would probably be most interested in the Mac software called _Reunion_. Information for purchasing it is listed in the FAQ on the LISTSERVE that lists Mac software programs. I saw the program demonstrated by the creator himself last Spring and was totally convinced that one day I would own that software (after buying a Mac, etc.). It's only $89.95, and it is quite impressive. It can print out quality charts -- especially if you've got a laser printer -- and if you're lucky enough to have a scanner, you can even scan in photos of your family members and place them next to their information! The developer of the software is a nice person (I forget his name) who is willing to put his home phone number on his promotional materials and answer even stupid questions over the phone! I guess you can tell I was very impressed with his presentation. No, I'm not affiliated with him or his company. But if you're looking for a Mac program to print quality charts, please look into _Reunion_. Corinne Smith Penn State Audio-Visual Services (800) 826-0132 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 15:33:45 GMT Reply-To: David Magier Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: David Magier Subject: Re: Graphics Display of Roots A nice solution I have found is to use a presentation software (for the Mac) called MORE (sorry I don't have the price and publisher details handy, pehaps someone else can fill in?). One feature of MORE is that it allows you to enter information in the form of an outline (i.e. with different amounts of line indentation indicating the different levels of the outline hierarchy). Once the outline is entered, you can then have MORE convert it into a nice branching TREE-CHART (which can be fine-tuned to have frames around the individual nodes, straight, angular or curved borders, fills, etc. etc. MORE also allows you to set whether you want your tree to be branching down, branching left, branching right, or branching up). This tree chart can then be exported as a PICT file, which can then be touched up, annotated, edited or adorned in your favorite graphics program to make nice family-TREE charts. I use this method as follows: I put all information for each individual on ONE LINE of the outline in MORE. (I include name, birth year, birth place, death year, death place), and use MORE's directional and organizational controls to move each line to the right amount of indentation to indicate the apporpriate generation. After I've got the whole lineage entered in this fashion, I turn it into a tree (I like rounded-rectangle boxes around the info for each individual, and I like downward branching trees to show descendants. The boxes are connected vertically to the parent node and horizontally to the siblings by nice lines generated by the program. The box size for each node can be set in the program: I like the boxes for each individual to be about 1.25" by 1", and I set my fonts [using a nice laser font] accordingly). MORE can handle large-multipage trees in this method, and I have generated such trees for lineages including more than 600 individuals [i.e. 600 boxes in the tree]. The ideal, of course, would be to find a genealogical software that could generate these charts directly, or, at least, could EXPORT the tab-delimited outline format so that it could be imported into MORE without having to retype anything... Hope this helps. David Magier magier@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu -_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ ____________________ 304 International Affairs /// -- David Magier -- \\\ Columbia University ||| South Asia ||| New York, N.Y. 10027 ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 17:45:35 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Ellen Keyne Seebacher Subject: Re: Graphics Display of Roots In article <1991Sep18.153345.8622@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu> magier@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu (David Magier) recommends MORE: >A nice solution I have found is to use a presentation software (for >the Mac) called MORE (sorry I don't have the price and publisher >details handy, perhaps someone else can fill in?). MORE 3.0 is published by Symantec Corporation, Cupertino, CA. Their phone number, from the front of the manual, is (408) 253-9600. Note that MORE 3.0 is expensive by most people's standards -- the mail-order places are running about US$265 -- but you shouldn't buy it for genealogy only. I'm a computing analyst and writer, and I *live* in MORE -- its outline features are second to none, and word-processing and presentation features are pretty impressive too. Thanks for the tip, David. -- Ellen Keyne Seebacher elle@midway.uchicago.edu ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1991 18:51:21 GMT Reply-To: Teri Pettit Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Teri Pettit Subject: Re: PAF for Mac -- System 7? In article <11643@orca.wv.tek.com> alanj@nevermore.WV.TEK.COM (Alan Jeddeloh) writes: >I am currently using PAF on my Mac SE and both my wife and I are extremely >happy with it. > >Now I am contemplating buying a new computer, either a IILC or IIsi. >I believe >Apple is now shipping everything with System 7. Apple includes >a "compatability checker" with System 7, but by the time I get that, the >SE will (hopefully :-) be history. > >Anybody know of any problem running PAF under System 7? I have been using PAF on both a 1987-purchased MacII and a 1990-purchased MacIIci under System 7 for several months, and it works fine. Teri Pettit pettit@adobe.com ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1991 23:59:25 GMT Reply-To: Teri Pettit Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Teri Pettit Subject: Re: Graphics Display of Roots In article AFZLORI@UICVMC.BITNET (Lori A. Graven) writes: > > My aunt has successfully traced our GRAVEN family back to Ireland - > the early 1700's. I would like to take this information and draw something > up for family members, (something for framing). > I do a lot of design work on a Macintosh and had planned on using a graphic > software, (such as Superpaint or Adobe Illustrator). Do any of you > have any better suggestions? Is there a Geneology software that would > be better for me to use? > > Lori 333-4823 afzlori@uicvmc I tried to respond to Lori directly, but got the error: ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 uicvmc.bitnet (tcp)... 550 Host unknown 554 afzlori@uicvmc.BITNET... 550 Host unknown (Authoritative answer from name server) ----- Recipients of this delivery ----- Bounced, cannot deliver: afzlori@uicvmc.BITNET And I don't know whether 333-4823 is meant to be a phone number, sans area code, or whether it is some kind of bitnet-specific address. So I guess I will respond to the list. Lori, do you have a more reliable or widely known net address? Here is what I wrote: Lori, I have never found a genealogy program that runs on the Mac and that can make decent genealogical charts. I haven't tried the new Reunion, though. I would have to see a variety of its output before I would purchase it; I have very high standards for graphics. And it is so hard to get demos of Mac genealogy software. You can't just walk into a software store and ask to see it in action (at least, I have never found a store that carried any.) I haven't tried the More method, either, but I am pretty sure it would not have the flexibility I want. So I make up all my charts in Adobe Illustrator by hand. I have designed, so far, about 5 charts, including a nice compact 8-generation chart that fits on one letter size page (landscape), that I always include with all my genealogy-related correspondence (actually, I've filled it out separately for my father and my mother, as well as for myself, and choose which one to include depending on which side of the family my correspondent is related to me by, or use mine if both sides are relevant.) I've also made a tabloid landscape 9-generation chart (the office next to mine has a Linotype 60 that can do 600dpi on tabloid or smaller paper - sharp) and a 2-page portrait mode letter size version of the same, where the left page can be used alone as a 5-generation chart, and you can either continue it by the "this person is the same as n on chart m" traditional method, or use the right hand page for a compact view of generations 6 through 9. And I've created a broadsheet (22 x 17) chart, that records a couple at the base of a tree, their children and grandchildren as the branches, and 8 generations of the husband's ancestors as the left roots and 8 generations of the wife's ancestors as the right roots, which makes it a 10-generation chart (plus sibs, etc.) for the children who form the primary branches. Each side of the roots is basically my letter-size 8-generation chart with person no. 1 removed from the position between their parents, and elevated to the base of the tree, and anentafel numbers removed (they looked too technical on a chart like this, and did not format very nicely on the reflected left-hand side.) This will give you a rough idea of how it is laid out (except that the roots extend all the way to the margins): --------------------------------------- | | || | | --- --- || --- --- == == || == == == || == == === === == -------------------------++----------------------- ====---- || ----==== ==== |----++----| ==== ====---- || ----==== ==== ++ ==== ====---- || ----==== ==== |----++----| ==== ====---- || ----==== I have considered putting under the chart itself a pale tint image of a tree silouette, oak or some other broad tree like that, but I don't have access to a color printer with large paper, and don't want to pay megabucks for professional printing, so I haven't done that. I use tiny fonts out at the far generations, so that I can include full dates and places to the 6th generation, and a lifespan note (e.g, 1758 VA - 1830 OH) on the 7th generation ancestors. The wall chart will only fit on the artboard at full size in the development version of Illustrator I am working on - look on the splash screen for my name. But in earlier versions of Illustrator you can setup your page at 50% reduction, tabloid landscape, and then edit the Postscript (tm) to blow it back up to full size (if you are a graphic designer, you are probably used to this trick for creating big art in Illustrator. It will not be necessary in Illustrator 4 - but don't ask me for more details. I am being naughty leaking this much to you.) Unfortunately, since there is no way to tie these charts into a database, I have to edit them all manually whenever I find a new name or date. Would you like me to send you the Illustrator files for some or all of these? If so, I would prefer that you give me your U.S. Mail address and let me mail you a floppy, because I don't have a BITNET account, and I avoid learning any details about UNIX communication. Teri Pettit pettit@adobe.com ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 20 Sep 1991 15:47:00 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Steve Hayes Subject: Re: Graphics Display of Roots DM>A nice solution I have found is to use a presentation software (for DM>the Mac) called MORE (sorry I don't have the price and publisher DM>details handy, pehaps someone else can fill in?). One feature of MORE DM>is that it allows you to enter information in the form of an outline DM>(i.e. with different amounts of line indentation indicating the DM>different levels of the outline hierarchy). Once the outline is DM>entered, you can then have MORE convert it into a nice branching DM>TREE-CHART (which can be fine-tuned to have frames around the DM>individual nodes, straight, angular or curved borders, fills, etc. DM>etc. MORE also allows you to set whether you want your tree to be DM>branching down, branching left, branching right, or branching DM>up). The same principle is used by Sidekick Plus in MS-DOS, though of course without the frills. The Family History System by Phillip E. Brown has an option to export to ORGCHART, a shareware program that does much the same thing, though I have only ever used Sidekick Plus for it. The exported file is an Ascii text file with the appropriate indentations, which SK Plus transforms into a dropline tree. As I said, it's a text version, without the frills of the Mac version, but it works. DM>the tree]. The ideal, of course, would be to find a genealogical DM>software that could generate these charts directly, or, at least, DM>could EXPORT the tab-delimited outline format so that it could be DM>imported into MORE without having to retype anything... Hope this DM>helps. Well, if you use FHS under DOS, and then transfer the file to the MAC, you can have the best of both worlds. Steve Hayes P O Box 7648, Pretoria 0001 South Africa -- Steve Hayes INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.catpe.alt.za ========================================================================= Date: Wed, 18 Sep 1991 18:35:00 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Steve Hayes Subject: genealogy programs To: wolcott@.dpw.com On <17 Sep 1991 21:43> Michael Wolcott said to All : MW>Also, if you can tell me of other genealogical programs I might MW>peruse, I would appreciate this knowledge as well. MW>Thanks for whatever help you can provide. If you're using an MS-DOS computer, here is a list of some I've tried: The following is an extract from a bulletin I have written for a South African BBS with a genealogy sub-board, to give newcomers to the BBS an idea of what programs are worth trying for geneal- ogy. As convener of the Computer Interest Group of the Genealogi- cal Society of South Africa I give the same advice. No doubt we are missing some of the latest versions of these programs, but it can still give one an idea. WHICH GENEALOGY PROGRAM SHOULD YOU GET? Here is my "order of merit" of the programs available (a personal view, but I have tried them all). These are all shareware or freeware. There are also several good commercial programs avail- able, which I haven't reviewed here because they aren't available for download. Two of the programs listed here, FHS and The Family Edge, also have commercial versions with extra features. 1. FAMILY HISTORY SYSTEM (FHS). The best for beginners, and good for experienced users too. Biggest range of reports, and import and export options. Lacks fields for baptism & burial (as opposed to birth & death) though you can include them as comments. As bombproof as you can get - only destruction of the disk will cause you to lose data. It's the best value for money because the basic system is FREE (there is no obligation to register) though if you do regis- ter you will get some useful extensions. Best features are the relative reports (I haven't found these in any other program) and the free form Family group and descendant reports, which allow you to include comments. It also seems to be the only program that actually uses the dates input to calculate (and print) ages. Registration: $ 0.00, though a commercial version is available for $35.00. 2. BROTHER'S KEEPER. This is a very good program. It lacks the relative reports of FHS, but it does include fields for bap- tism and burial dates, as opposed to births and deaths, though it doesn't do any calculations with the data. It has a good range of reports, and is easy to set up. Good GEDCOM import and export. Registration $40.00 3. THE FAMILY EDGE. The shareware version ($10 registration) is limited to 500 records, though there is a commercial version ($99.00) which can store over a million records. It's an excellent and powerful program, and its best feature is its instant alphabetical indexing. The commercial version would be at the top of the list, but it's not available for download (obviously). 4. LINKAGES. Works well, but the author no longer seems to be developing it. There is a GEDCOM program to get data OUT, but not to put it IN. 5. TRACER. This is a clone of the Mormon Church's Personal Ancestral File program, version 1 (PAF). It works OK, but the unregistered version lacks GEDCOM. Also, the registra- tion fee is $40.00, while PAF version 2.2 costs $35.00, and has several more goodies in it, so if you pay for TRACER you pay more for less. But if you want a preview of what PAF looks and works like, it's worth a look. 6. FAMILY TIES. Does nice ancestor (pedigree) charts, but no descendant charts. Nice data entry and screen displays, but has no way of correcting some mistakes in data entry - a fatal flaw. Not recommended. 7. FT-ETC. The last version I tried was limited and buggy, but that was some time ago. Other people have reported that more recent versions are better. Try it and compare it with 1, 2 & 3. 8. Genealogy ON DISPLAY. Even more limited and more buggy. Don't waste disk space by using it. Difficult to set up, though some people have managed it. ---------------------------- Steve Hayes, P O Box 7648, Pretoria, 0001 South Africa. Fidonet Address: 5:7101/22 -- Steve Hayes INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.alt.za ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 21 Sep 1991 22:56:36 CDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Cliff Manis Subject: New Brother's Keeper 5.0 Readers of ROOTS-L and soc.roots: New ----> Brother's Keeper 5.0 I found this message from John Steed, (author of Brother's Keeper) today on the Genealogy Echo net. (Please note my DISCLAIMER) He has most of the NEW Brother's Keeper ready for use, and available now. > Msg#: 1362 *GENEALOGY* > 09-16-91 07:57:08 > From: JOHN STEED > To: ......... > Subj: RE: BROTHERS KEEPER > > Brother's Keeper version 5.0 will run on a laptop without a hard disk, but it > will run slowly when adding information. That is why I recommend that it be > used with a hard disk. If you don't have a hard disk, or if you want to copy > the program to a laptop for use at the library, etc., then it will work, but > just not as fast. > > You could also use version 4.5 on the laptop and copy names with gedcom. > BK version 5.0 is available for downloading on my BBS at (616) 364-1127. > My BBS is not part of Fido or any network yet. > > I will notify all registered users in a couple weeks. > > --- Maximus-CBCS v1.02 > * Origin: Edge CBCS - Grand Rapids MI - (616 363-7360) (1:228/4) > You may download a BK5A.EXE file from the FILES "A" area on his BBS. I did download the file tonite, but since SIMTEL20 has no Sysop, I will find another place to store it, so that all or most may download it via FTP or mail request. It is a very enhanced version compared to the old Brother's Keeper 4.5C. John Steed has a "changes.doc" and included with the version. It tells most of what the new version is about....... I will not upload this file BK5A.EXE to ROOTS-L GENEALOG. GENEALOG is not for programs, it is for textfiles. If interested enough you may use a program such as Procomm, PCPLUS, or any other comms program and download the bk5a.exe file using xmodem from John's BBs. Just call his system....(ha) my system called his system 218 times before it finally got a free line on his end. The file is 220k in length, and takes only about 20 minutes to download at 2400 buad. It is a DOS executable which will extract its own files in the same directory. I used the downloaded version tonite, and it works fine. I quickly added a sample DB of 40 names and data and produced an ancestor report. I have uploaded the "changes.doc" to GENEALOG file BK5chan This report is from the sample data I put into the program tonite... and it only came from one sheet of paper I have. I am not interested in the Williams surname. DESCENDANTS OF: William Williams * William Williams m. Mrs. _____ Williams William was a native of Wales, who in coming to the United States before the breaking out of the last French War, 1755 - enlisted in the Colonial service, and marched with Braddock's ill-fated army to attack Fort Duquesne. He never returned, and is supposed to have been killed at the bloody defeat, suffered by Braddock's forces. He was accompanied to this country by his two son, Aaron and William, then young men. . * Aaron Williams m. ____ Lampman Arron married a sister of Peter Lampman, leased and cleared a new farm east of Copake Lake. He build a log house with but one room and a loft, and no floor but the ground. He and his wife reared a family of 12 children. . . * William Williams . . * Elizabeth Williams . . * Caspuras Williams . . * David Williams . . * Peter Williams . . * Nelly Williams . . * Cornelius Williams m. Mrs _____ Williams . . . * Elizabeth Williams . . . * John C. Williams . . . * Aaron Williams . . . * Mary Williams . . . * Rhonda Williams . . . * Calvin Williams . . . * Lewis Williams . . . * Moncrief Williams . . . * Seymour Williams . . . * Clara Williams . . * Henry Williams . . * Lanah Williams . . * Clara Williams . . * Hannah Williams . . * John Williams m. Charity Smith . . . * Sylvester Williams . . . * Sally Williams . . . * Clara Williams . . . * Cornelius Williams . . . * Eliza Williams . . . * John Williams . * William Williams William went to Schoharie county, New York, and settled there. Good Luck... Cliff Cliff Manis K4ZTF Manis/Manes Family History Searching: MANIS MANES MANESS MANAS WHITEHORN CANTER BIRD CORBETT NEWMAN USMAIL: P. O. Box 33937, San Antonio, Texas 78265-3937 BITNET: cmanis%csoftec.csf.com@VM1.NoDak.EDU Caretaker of GENEALOG INTERNET: cmanis@csoftec.csf.com GEnie: A.Manis FIDONET: Cliff.Manis@p2.f607.n387.z1.fidonet.org "He who careth not whence he came, careth not whither he goeth" W.M. Taylor Standard Disclaimer: We are not associated with anyone. (PERIOD). (.) ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1991 14:02:00 EDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: DEIS@ZODIAC.BITNET Subject: Re: Genealogy questions (software, charts, Italy) Hi Scott, Let me give a "top of my head" answer to a couple of your questions. I really believe that FHS GEDCOM can export EVERYTHING. GEDCOM is a very comprehensive language and it can contain the comments and everything. Do you have the registered version of FHS? At some point I remember being asked what I want to include in the export file, and having the opportunity to check off Comments etc. Going back and forth from FHS to PAF via GEDCOM can produce headaches. The worst thing is that PAF wants each child to have two married parents, whereas FHS doesn't make moral judgements about such things. So if you export a "single parent" family, FHS has to invent the missing parent so PAF won't get too upset. Then, when you re-import the file into FHS, you get all of these new "unknown" people. Finally -- what order to enter data. When I first started in FHS, I wanted to make me or my kid #1, and the parents #2 and #3, the grandparents 4,5,6, and 7, etc. There is a major problem with this plan -- it's like the "towers of Hanoi" puzzle. If I enter ME before my parents, then I have to enter my parents and subsequently go back to my record and record who my parents are. So one is constantly going back and forth. Furthermore, you can't "stick" with such numbers and also include the Aunts, Cousins, etc. So, basically, start with the OLDEST couple in a line. Add all their kids, then all their kids' spouses. Work down a generation at a time. That way, you'll always have the parents of your new entry. And you have to treat the RID as a mere "accession number" -- you can't make it make "sense." Frank FRANK.DEIS on GEnie DEIS@ZODIAC.BITNET ========================================================================= Date: Sun, 22 Sep 1991 16:14:51 CDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Cliff Manis Subject: Re: Genealogy questions (software, charts, Italy) Scott and the Group: Reference part of this message: > From: vahl scott gordon > Subject: Genealogy questions (software, charts, Italy) Thanks for posting all these questions. Many times a week, different people ask me the same questions via Email, so I will post these answers back to ROOTS-L. > 1) Does GEDCOM have the capability to transfer comments, education, and > occupation information? Or just the "vital statistics". Can't figure > out how to get FHS to export anything but the vitals. yes, to all the above. It transfers all the NOTE, CONT, INFO, and SOUR lines also. It is the standard by which GENEALOGICAL DATA is transferred, and has been for some time. The specifications for the GEDCOM format (Level Numbers) is available in a 50 page booklet from LDS for $5.00. It is called "The GEDCOM Standard", and the latest release is 4.0, dated August 1989. There are several hundred "tags" which have been approved for use with GEDCOM. Their mailing address is: Family History Dept of the LDS Data Administration 3T, Church Office Building 50 East North Temple Salt Lake City, UT 84150 Telephone: 1-801-240-5227 If other questions, call them. All levels and specifications of GEDCOM are defined and explained in this document. If you take a good serious look at a short GEDCOM file, its easy enough to see how it works. Many times I just edit my GEDCOM file with 'vi' and input the data direct. They (LDS) will accept your GEDCOM files as sent. > 5) Is there any particular order that I should be entering information in? > Or does it matter? For instance, who should be #1? When using a program which has a conversion to the GEDCOM standard, it absolutely makes no difference at all which name you enter first. One of my friends here in San Antonio has 76 generations in a GEDCOM file and names here & there in it. Another GEDCOM file which I have is over 1 meg long, and another friend has 14 megs of GEDCOM in just 5 of his families. > 8) I've been able to transfer information between FHS and BK using > GEDCOM 2.0. Can I be confident that this information will transfer > to PAF without problem? I'd like to know before I enter in a whole > bunch of information. I would say yes, I have used all three of these programs and data has been transferred without a problem. My best advice here would be to input some data, and save it again in GEDCOM format, and load that into PAF for yourself. I have never lost any data when going a BK <----> PAF conversion. > 9) Is there a standard format for group sheets that I should use? Or > should I tailor it to my hearts desire? Are there pros and cons? > > As you can see, I'm just starting to get my feet wet, and I'd > just as soon do it right the first time so that if I get more > and more involved, I'll be glad I was careful. Collecting data, and format of family groups sheets, and how they should be formatted. This is always a big problem. I would say the real emphasis should be on ithe collection of data. ie. When you find something in a reference book (or whereever) which is of importance to your family information, always put on the same notes enough information from the source, author, page, title, date, to where there is no doubt that you can go find that document again next week or next year or 5 years down the line. If you do not not get that information down, then you do not have enough information on the source to use it as a reference.... I think documentation of the source of your information is more inportant than the information itself. I would be better off now if I had been more careful during the first few years (1954-55) in the collection of family information.... No one in our family had ever worked on it before, and all seemed to be interested, and I could not write fast enough sometimes to get it all down, and/or who told me, or where it came from.... and so on. "Starting to get my feet wet...... do it right the first time" when talking about Genealogy should probably not be in the same sentence, because in my opinion that is not possible. The following para is quoted Automated Archives Quarterly, Summer 91: Genealogy is a disease. It seems that no one has addressed the the issue of genealogy as a disease. Sure it starts out as a hobby but somewhere along the line the way many of us cross that fine line. I searchd medical jounals with a list of symptoms but the closest diagnosis said, "Consult psychiatrist at once, you may be an obsessive-compulsive personality." By Cathy Borden Sloan. I have spent untold 100's of hours reading, researching, inputing data, writing programs, formatting reports and all the other stuff over the past 30+ years and think its great. The really good part is, helping others to get started and organize thier data for input it into a genealogy program. During the past 2 years - several of my co-workers have become involved with their family history. Maybe someone else will also answer some of your questions, and I will be happy to see a discussion of these questions. This message is much longer than I intended. Its 6k. Good luck...cliff -- Cliff Manis K4ZTF Manis/Manes Family History Searching: MANIS MANES MANESS MANAS WHITEHORN CANTER BIRD CORBETT NEWMAN USMAIL: P. O. Box 33937, San Antonio, Texas 78265-3937 BITNET: cmanis%csoftec.csf.com@VM1.NoDak.EDU Caretaker of GENEALOG INTERNET: cmanis@csoftec.csf.com GEnie: A.Manis FIDONET: Cliff.Manis@p2.f607.n387.z1.fidonet.org "He who careth not whence he came, careth not whither he goeth" W.M. Taylor Standard Disclaimer: We are not associated with anyone. (PERIOD). (.) ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1991 11:00:22 EDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Tony Gould Subject: Re: PAF on a LapTop In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 23 Sep 1991 09:27:00 EST from Dorothy, I've been using PAF on my IBM Convertible Laptop for two years now. The IBM Convertible is an IBM XT using two 3 1/2" floppy drives. I load the PAF software on the A: drive and my PAF data on the B: drive. It's really nice having all of my research on the computer when doing a search of a family name. I also use Dataease (database) to enter all of my research (ie. birth, death, burial, marriage, census, etc). I always enter all names when researching and then update a field on the record when I have used the data. This allows me to keep track of data which I used and which names I still might be able to link to my family. I got a good deal on my laptop thru the university when IBM was discontinuing the IBM Convertible. The total cost was $600.00 which included the pc, super-twist LCD screen, color monitor (CGA), 512K of memory, carrying case, and recharger. I copy all of my diskettes which include my PAF data, databases onto my EPS 80386 25mhz machine at home and my hard drives at home are then backed up on a tape backup streamer. A laptop is definately the way to go and you get alot of interested people wandering how you're using the computer for genealogy. Tony Gould The University of Akron Akron, OH 44325-3501 D1ARG@AKRONVM ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1991 10:40:58 PDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Karen Isaacson Subject: Re: PAF on a LapTop In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 23 Sep 91 11:00:22 EDT. <9109231515.AA20652@rand.org> Hi all, When I was in Salt Lake a month or so ago, I had along a notebook computer with PAF installed on it. Sheer heaven! This machine was a DEC UltraLite that my husband managed to win about a year ago by the clever expedient of dropping his business card in a fishbowl at the local ComputerLand, but I saw the same computer for sale in the DAK catalog a few months back for under $1000, maybe quite a bit under. It comes with 2 megs of some sort of storage, that act like a hard disk, but aren't. We bought an outboard 3 1/2" floppy drive to keep it company, but I had PAF on the "hard disk" along with my database (6000 or so people). Besides being able to refer to my database whenever I saw someone interesting in a book or microfilm, I also used it take notes with. It was small and light enough to take along on quick trips to the card catalog... I'd sure recommend something like this, if you spend money on your genealogy like there's no tomorrow. (Who, me?) The only down side is that I'm not sure how safe they are to leave sitting if you want to make a quick trip to the restroom, doublecheck a census index reference, something like that. If you're nervous about that sort of thing, then weight is something you should consider when you make a purchase. Mine was small enough to carry along. Karen karen@rand.org ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 23 Sep 1991 11:34:04 PDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Karen Isaacson Subject: From FHS to PAF via GEDCOM In-Reply-To: Your message of Sun, 22 Sep 91 14:02:00 EDT. <9109221806.AA03995@rand.org> I feel obligated to expand on Frank Deis' message from Sunday, since I gave him some bad information a while back about just what happens when one goes from FSH to PAF via GEDCOM. PAF does not recognize the PFAM records that FHS builds. (These are how FHS designates single-parent families.) And PAF complains mightily. BUT, as it turns out, PAF still does the right thing with the info. I guess it complains so that we'll appreciate how hard it has to work, or something. What it does is construct families with single parents, where the other parent is unknown. No phony people. And (if you select the proper option when leaving FHS), ID numbers are even preserved. FHS supports the situation where two unmarried people have a child. PAF isn't particularly graceful about that situation. Also, in the FHS database, some dates were, well, shaky, and entered as "1859?". FHS stripped off the "?" when it built the GED file, so when the dates were imported into PAF, they were "firm." If you don't use commas in FHS to separate your towns from your counties from your states in FHS (for example, "Ruso McLean Co. ND" -vs- "Ruso, McLean Co., ND"), then PAF won't know how to break the location up into subfields, and may find the whole thing too big to swallow. The only other problem came with comments attached to marriages instead of individuals. PAF doesn't support that, so threw them all away (again, only after complaining.) The FHS data base didn't use the special Education and Address fields, but I expect they would have led to trouble. Other than that, the transition went pretty well. I haven't tried going the other way, so don't know what, if any, pitfalls there are. Karen karen@rand.org ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 01:47:22 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Vic Abell Subject: "Genealogical Computing" software reviews There have been a number of requests recently on ROOTS-L and soc.roots for genealogical software recommendations. While the list/newsgroup is an important resource, few readers have the time to write extensive reviews or review software extensively. There does exist, however, an excellent source of genealogical software information in the quarterly journal, "Genealogical Computing." It is published by Ancestry Incorporated 350 South 400 East, Suite 110 Salt Lake City, Utah 84111 An annual subscription is $25 and subscription orders may be placed at (800) 531-1790. My state historical library subscribes, and I suspect copies can be found at most genealogical libraries. The July/August/September, 1991 issue (Volume 11, Number 1) contains reviews of 98 genealogical software products. I am enclosing a catalog of those reviews. Please consult "Genealogical Computing" for more information. Vic Abell ============================================================================= Software reviews from Genealogical Computing, Volume 11, Number 1, July/August/September, 1991 Name Runs on and costs ==== ================= Lineage-linked, Database Software with full reviews Arbor-Aide MS/PC-DOS $89.95, Commodore 64 $54.95 Brother's Keeper 4.5c MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $40 Everyone's Family Tree MS/PC-DOS v3.03A $169, v3.03B $99 Family MS/PC-DOS, Commodore 64/128, AppleDOS, TRS89 Color $34.95 Family Genealogy MS/PC-DOS $39.95 Family Heritage File Macintosh $149 Family History System MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $12 Family Reunion 3.3 MS/PC-DOS $59.95 Family Roots 3 MS/PC-DOS $225, Macintosh $180, Atari ST $225, ProDOS (Apple II) $225, DOS 3.3 (Apple II) $225, CP/M $149, Commodore 64/128 $225, TRS-DOS $149 Family Tree 2.3 Commodore 64/128 $49.95 Family Tree Etc. 5.03 MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $35 Genassist 4.91 MS/PC-DOS $150 GENE, GEDCOMG, GENEX, GED2TT 6 MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $20 Genealogical Data Base System 2 MS/PC-DOS, ProDOS (Apple II) $79.96 Genealogy db 1.1 MS/PC-DOS $49.95 Genealogy Research III MS/PC-DOS $95 Generation Gap Plus Atari ST, MS-PC/DOS $49.95 GENP 1.5 Amiga $99.95 (Australian) Griot Alternative 2 MS/PC-DOS $199 It's All Relative Atari ST, Mega, Stacy, STE, Mega STE $25/$35 Lineages from Quinsept MS/PC-DOS, ProDOS (Apple II), Commodore 64/128 Standard $49, Advanced $99 MacGene Macintosh $150 norgen 2 Amiga $99.95 Pedigree 2.2 MS/PC-DOS $99 Personal Ancestral File (PAF) MS/PC-DOS v2.2, Macintosh v2.1 $35 Prism MS/PC-DOS $39 Relativity MS/PC-DOS $159, Shareware $39 Reunion 2.0 Macintosh (Hypercard) $149 Roots and Relatives ProDOS (Apple II) $99.50 Roots III 3.01.04N MS/PC-DOS $250 The Family Edge Plus 2.5 MS/PC-DOS $99, Shareware $19 Your Family Tree 2.0 Amiga $59.95 Other Lineage-linked Database Software whose full specifications are not known. AGP: A Genealogy Program Atari ST $74.95 Family Ties 1.19g MS/PC-DOS Family Tree MS/PC-DOS, Shareware (?) $6 Family Tree 1.0 Macintosh (Hypercard), Shareware $5 Gene MS/PC-DOS Genea MS/PC-DOS $75 GeneaLOGICAL Records System 1 MS/PC-DOS $49 Genealogy Macintosh (Hypercard), Free Genealogical Explorer 2.0 Macintosh (Hypercard) $30 Genealogy Data Base 1.1 Macintosh (Hypercard), Shareware $5 Genealogy Research Program 1.1 Macintosh (hypercard), Free HeartWood 2.0 Macintosh, $75 Horizons MS/PC-DOS, $39.95 HyperGene 1.0 Macintosh (Hypercard) $89 Hyper-Genealogy Macintosh (Hypercard) $79 Hyper-Tree 1.1 Macintosh (Hypercard), Free Lineage Master MS/PC-DOS MacGenie 1.3 Macintosh (Hypercard) $24.95 MacRoots 7.0.1 Macintosh, Shareware My Family Record MS/PC-DOS, $179.50 My Roots 3 MS/PC-DOS, Apple II $99.95 OriGen 1.22 MS/PC-DOS $29.95 Parents MS/PC-DOS Pedigree 3.0 Commodore 64, Shareware $15 Roots and Branches 1.2 Macintosh (Hypercard) $49.95 Roots Master 1.1 MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $35 SunriseGEN Macintosh (Hypercard) $101 The Family Tree MS/PC-DOS $49.95 Tracer 3.0 MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $49.95 Report and chart making programs Dropline MS/PC-DOS, Atari ST $49.95 Family Connections MS/PC-DOS $95 Family Tree Maker MS/PC-DOS $59.95 FTP 1.20c & 2.2c, GEDc MS/PC-DOS $25 for any two Graftree 2a MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $10 Just Charts MS/PC-DOS $29.95 Wall Chart MS/PC-DOS $20 Autobiography/History Writing Family Tree Journal 8.0 MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $35 Journal Writer 1.0 MS/PC-DOS $49.95 Life History Disk 2.8 MS/PC-DOS, Apple II, Macintosh $19.95 Memories? MS/PC-DOS $79.95 My Story MS/PC-DOS $119.95 Indexing The Indexer MS/PC-DOS $44.95 Indexx MS/PC-DOS $75 IXM and IX3 MS/PC-DOS, TRS-80 Model 3 $15 Sky Index 3.0 MS/PC-DOS $74.95 Research Tools ByteWare Commodore 64/128, PET $15 and up Census db MS/PC-DOS $29.95 Genealogical Event Database MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $15 Genealogy Assistant MS/PC-DOS $20 (5 programs) Gipsi 2.0 MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $25/$35 Sesame 3.0 MS/PC-DOS, Macintosh $195 Add-on Utilities Ahnentafel 1.3 (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $7.50 Family (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS $55 Family Records Utilities 1.6 MS/PC-DOS, Freeware (for PAF) Forest 1.1 (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $7.50 FT-More 2.3 (for Family Tree Etc.) GENE-PAF (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $20 Henry 1.1 (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $7.50 HotNotes! 1.0 (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $15 MSTFEO (for The Family Edge) Free PAFAbility 1.0 (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS $10 R3FIXETC (for Roots III) MS/PC-DOS, Free ($5 payable to KY Gen. Soc.) RDF2GED (for PAF) MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $20 PNAMES (for Roots III) MS/PC-DOS, Shareware $5 RPLOT (for Roots III) Tree Charts (for Family Roots) ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 03:43:56 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Theodore John Swift Subject: Re: Software. was (no subject given) > I find myself quite confused with the discussion of software. Ain't we all :-). It's true; there are so many different ones out there that there's a magazine devoted to just that subject: _Genealogical Computing_ published by Ancestry, Inc. I apologize for not having their address, etc., handy. I'm at work and most of my genealogical notes are at home, and I don't have a subscription to it anyway. > I find I am in need of a good program. And have no idea where to begin. > The oft mentioned items on the list rarely discribe what the software > does, how it may be obtained, its cost and so on. First of all, Do you already have a computer? If not, the kind of hardware you want to buy depends on what software you want to run, which depends on what you'll use the computer for. At this point, there is some kind of useful genealogical software for just about any computer, though the best stuff has, as you'd expect, focussed on the big machines: the IBM compatibles, the Mac, and a few others. Since you're on The Net, I assume you have a personal computer somewhere. There are only a few programs out there worth buying a whole different hardware platform for :-), so your search narrows to what's available for your system. Cliff (you out there, Cliff?) keeps a few Frequenty Asked Questions (FAQ, there's another three-letter acronym, or TLA, for you) in the LISTSERV archive at VM1.NoDak.EDU!LISTSERV. He posts something every few days- you can't miss it. There are FAQ files for what's available on the different machines which go into variable detail about the programs. Send a letter to VM1.NoDak.EDU!LISTSERV, leave the subject blank, and have the single line "GET FILELIST" or "GET INDEX ROOTS-L" and you will get an exhaustive list of what's available. It's impressive. The files in the list include, but are by no means limited to: FAQ INDEX FAQ Index FAQ 0201 Software for IBM FAQ 0202 Software for Commodore FAQ 0203 Software for Atari FAQ 0204 Software for Amiga FAQ 0205 Software for Radio Shack TRS80 FAQ 0206 Software for Apple and Mac FAQ 0301 Questions When Searching Family Roots FAQ 0401 Resources For Information FAQ 0501 Mail Order Solicitations FAQ 0601 Hardware for Computerized Genealogists FAQ 0701 How To Get Started In Genealogy GENEALOG GENSOFT7 Listing of Genealogy Software GENEALOG HELPFILE HELPFILE FOR GENEALOG FILES GENEALOG NGSTIPS Ideas for Beginners in GEN. GENEALOG PAF-MAC PAF on the Macintosh (INFO) GENEALOG SFAMTREE Searching your Family Tree ROOTSOFT 8788 Software Reviews 1987-1988 ROOTSOFT 89A Software Reviews 1989 (1 of 2) ROOTSOFT 89B Software Reviews 1989 (2 of 2) ROOTSOFT 90A Software Reviews 1990 (1) ROOTSOFT 90B Software Reviews 1990 (2) ROOTSOFT 90C Software Reviews 1990 (3) ROOTSOFT 90D Software Reviews 1990 (4) ROOTSOFT 91A Software Reviews 1991 (1) Using the same request technique, you can ask for the FAQ file(s) that interest(s) you. _Ancestry_ also publishes a book on using computers in genealogy, and it just came out in a new edition. It's too bad that I don't have the details with me, but your public library, as with all aspects of life in general, is a good place to start. Just a random list of programs that come to mind: PAF, or Personal Ancestor File, is produced and distributed by the Mormons (the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, or LDS). It's available by mail order for about $35 plus postage, etc. It's good for organizing what you know for sure, and comes with Research Data Filer, which helps you organize that which you don't know for sure (on this, see also Sesame). It runs on IBM compatibles, the Apple Macintosh, and possibly some others (?). It's the Honda Civic: good basic features, well supported, reliable, but doesn't have all the bells and whistles. Sesame came out in Spring 1991 from Commsoft in Windsor, CA. It's intended to be used to organize your research as you do it, rather than specifically to present your data once you've nailed down all those relatives. It's nifty, flexible, communicates with other programs in all sorts of formats, and costs about $140. It runs on the Mac and on Compatibles running Microsoft Windows 3.0 (I hear you groan). This may start a religious war, but it's fair to say that Windows needs a powerful compatible to run well. It's the pickup truck: good for getting work done and organizing dirty notes and random stuff, but not much to impress your date. Roots III, also from Commsoft, runs on Compatibles only (so far?). It is the cadillac. I haven't used it (I have a Mac), but when you're done entering your data, it will write your book for you. I'm not sure of the price, but it's somewhere within a factor of two of $250. Family Roots from Quinsept in Massachussets is available for the Mac, IBMs, ?Commodore?, and ?Apple ][?. It's somewhere between PAF and Roots III in both features (flexibility and customizability) and price. There are others (e.g., DISGEN in Swedish), and with luck their adherants will flame us in enough detail to tell you about them. I would try to track down more details, but this post is long enough as it is. Good luck and keep asking questions. Better to open your mouth and be thought uninformed than keep your mouth shut and stay uninformed. PS: I should clarify what I said about Sesame: it won't necessarily impress your date with it's *printed output*. But then it wasn't designed strictly to produce fancy finished output: It's strengths are as a research tool as you're doing research, for which it is admirably suited. There don't seem to be many other programs out there *for doing research*. -- ---------------------- Ted Swift tswift@well.sf.ca.us "You bally well are informed, Jeeves! Do you know everything?" "I don't know, sir" ~P.G. Wodehouse ========================================================================= Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1991 05:38:00 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Steve Hayes Subject: Genealogy questions (software, charts, Italy) On <23 Sep 1991 05:44> vahl scott gordon said to All : vsg>1) Does GEDCOM have the capability to transfer comments, education, and vsg> occupation information? Or just the "vital statistics". Can't figure vsg> out how to get FHS to export anything but the vitals. FHS has two versions of GEDCOM. One (available only to registered users) is based on an older version of the GEDCOM standard, and will export every field contained in FHS so that you can import part of your data into another set of FHS files. With the registered version, for example, you can make your second cousin once removed the "base" individual, and export all his or her relatives, including their spouses, spouses of children and children of spouses, and import those into another set for files to give to him or her. FHS also provides "PAF GEDCOM", which works according to the latest GEDCOM standard (provided you have a July 1990 or later version of FHS). This option is provided with the "free" version of FHS. It was designed to export from FHS to PAF, and so it only exports the data that PAF can actually use. PAF does not have separate fields for military, education, residence and so on that FHS has. On the other hand, PAF has separate fields for "christening", burial, and various ordinances of the LDS church that FHS does not have. FHS "comment" fields become PAF "notes" fields when transferred by GEDCOM. The problem here is not with GEDCOM as such, but with the way different genealogy programs store their data. Even with the new GEDCOM (which FHS calls PAF GEDCOM) there are fields defined for various events, such as military, health and the like. But they are not much use if the importing program doesn't know what to do with them. So FHS doesn't export them. vsg>2) Why is this "four generation" format such a standard? What vsg>if I want vsg> to produce a chart for 7 or 8 generations? I don't see how vsg>I can get vsg> a computer program to do it all on one chart. There's a vsg>compact vsg> format on FHS, but it doesn't look nearly as good as the vsg>"four vsg> generation" format. Some other programs can produce five or six generation charts, but that is about as much as you can get on a normal sheet of paper. One possibility you could try is to get the shareware version of the Family Edge, and export a subset of your data to that via GEDCOM, and use that for printing charts with more generations. Because different programs have different capabilities, a lot of people use more than one. I use FHS as my data entry program, and transfer all my data to PAF and The Family Edge. PAF does useful diagnostic reports. The Family Edge has some of the best looking reports of any program (especially if you have access to a laser printer). vsg> vsg>3) I have lots of cousins, and lots of information from vsg>different vsg> married people in our family. It seems that all charts I've vsg>seen vsg> are limited to either a single ancestor or (looking the vsg>other way) vsg> all direct ancestors. I can draw my complete chart by hand, vsg>but is vsg> there any software that can do it? (it seems like it would vsg>be a hard vsg> problem so I'm not expecting that there is). Yes, most do a descendant chart from a single ancestor, or a pedigree chart from a single descendant. FHS is unique in haveing a "relative report", but it doesn't do charts. vsg>4) Is there a summary anywhere out there of what kind of vsg>charts can be vsg> made by various software? For instance... I've heard that, vsg>say, there vsg> are "lots of chart tools" for, say, PAF. Is there a list vsg>somewhere vsg> that describes them so that I can see if one would be vsg>useful? Family Tree Print from Common-Sense Software will do what you want. It can do it from GEDCOM files. You export whichever part of your family you want to print. I have set FHS to export all relations of my children up to third cousins, including spouses, parents of spouses, etc. and then got FTP to print a wall chart. It works. vsg> vsg>5) Is there any particular order that I should be entering vsg>information in? vsg> Or does it matter? For instance, who should be #1? It doesn't matter. But as FHS does sequential searches, you, or somone close to you, should be No 1, as it will take less time to find them. vsg>6) If I wish to create a "book" of my family tree information vsg>out of vsg> group sheets, should I do this my starting with the oldest vsg>and including vsg> each group sheet until I've covered everyone? Or is there a vsg>better vsg> organisation? What is the clearest way to form a collection vsg>of trees? vsg> Should I just create descendent charts (trees) for all vsg>unrelated oldest vsg> ancestors? It seems like that might be most efficient and vsg>that it vsg> would eventually cover everyone... but there would still be vsg>lots of vsg> overlap and the "leaves" of the tree (the kids) wouldn't be vsg>able to vsg> quickly see who all of their ancestors are. Maybe produce a series of FHS merged relative reports, without page numbers, and then intersperse it with descendant charts for each branch of the family. vsg>8) I've been able to transfer information between FHS and BK using vsg> GEDCOM 2.0. Can I be confident that this information will transfer vsg> to PAF without problem? I'd like to know before I enter in a whole vsg> bunch of information. Yes - I do it all the time. vsg>9) Is there a standard format for group sheets that I should use? Or vsg> should I tailor it to my hearts desire? Are there pros and cons? Tailor it to your heart's desire. THat is why FHS provides all those options for reports (and if you use BK and PAF you get a few more options) too. -- Steve Hayes INTERNET: Steve.Hayes@p5.f22.n7101.z5.fidonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1991 18:08:06 EDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: Dick Miller Subject: Ancestor charts On Sept. 22nd, Scott Gordon (gordons@cs.colostate.edu) asked: >2) Why is this "four generation" format such a standard? What if I want > to produce a chart for 7 or 8 generations? I don't see how I can get > a computer program to do it all on one chart. There's a compact > format on FHS, but it doesn't look nearly as good as the "four > generation" format. The more advanced (registered) version of FHS allows you to modify the format of the 'All-generation' ancestor chart in various ways; for example, the following (except I've edited its prettier IBM-PC graphic characters to text characters for E-mail transmission): +--- 16 WOODRUFF, Joshua | b. 7 Nov 1708,Farmington, CT | d.10 Jun 1776,Farmington, CT at age 67 | +--+ 8 WOODRUFF, Joshua | | b.20 Jun 1748,Farmington, CT | | d.10 Apr 1822,Farmington, CT at age 73 | | | +--- 17 WOODFORD, Rebecca | b.20 May 1716,Farmington, CT | d.15 May 1782,Farmington, CT at age 65 | +--+ 4 WOODRUFF, Jeremiah | | b.29 Jul 1785,Farmington, CT | | d.17 Nov 1826,Berlin, CT at age 41 | | | +--- 9 CURTIS, Prudence | b.30 Apr 1749,Southington, CT | d.Jun 1822,Farmington, CT at age 73 | +--+ 2 WOODRUFF, Eli Keeney | | b. 6 Mar 1810,Farmington, CT | | d.12 Jul 1878,Elgin, MN at age 68 | | | +--- 5 KEENEY, Margaret (Mary) | b.1786 | d.Sep 1825,Farmington, CT at age 39? | --+ 1 WOODRUFF, Georgiana Eliza | b.12 Oct 1840,Quincy, IL really CT? | d. 5 Dec 1921,Plainview, MN at age 81 | | +--- 6 LEONARD, Moses | | +--+ 3 LEONARD, Mary Pamela | b. 3 Feb 1813,Sunderland, MA | d.29 Jun 1883,Elgin, MN at age 70 | +--- 7 HUBBARD, Pamelia (sic) It can be formatted for 1,2 or 3 lines of data and with or without an extra CR between entries. I have edited out lots of people from the original listing to show you how it would look. >3) I have lots of cousins, and lots of information from different > married people in our family. It seems that all charts I've seen > are limited to either a single ancestor or (looking the other way) > all direct ancestors. I can draw my complete chart by hand, but is > there any software that can do it? (it seems like it would be a hard > problem so I'm not expecting that there is). Ah, yes! We thought about this for some time and finally concluded that a 3-D chart (perhaps like a mobile) would be optimal for this kind of chart. Unfortunately, a good 3-D printer is not yet on the market. :-) At least FHS allows for written reports of this data. We don't sell FHS, but we sure like it! -- Jill Miller ------------------------------------------------------------------------ A. Richard & Jill Miller, 61 Lake Shore Road, Natick, MA 01760-2099, USA InterNet: dmiller@im.lcs.mit.edu Voice: 508/653-6136, 9am-9pm EasternTZ ========================================================================= Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1991 07:38:39 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Deon Strydom Subject: Brother's Keeper ver 5.0 * Forwarded from 'GENSOFT' area using EZPoint V2.1 * Forwarded by Deon Strydom on 5:7104/2.9 * Originally to All >>>>> Hi Kenneth, with regard to your question about Brother's >>>>> Keeper ver 5.0, this message was in the Fidonet >>>>> Genealogy software conference (Tag: GENSOFT). The new version of Brother's Keeper is out, and as it's a substantial file (774K in a self-extracting archive), here's one or two of the changes to help you make the desision whether to download it (quoted from the file changes.doc in the archive) The numbers don't follow numerically as I've deleted most of the changes: >>>>> Author's documentation starts.. ======================================================================= As of this writing (September 10, 1991) some programs which are available in version 4.5 have not been converted for use with version 5.0. However, all of the main parts of BK are functioning, and the remaining programs should be available in a few weeks. All version 4.5 programs have been converted EXCEPT for the following: BKBOX4 - four family descendant box charts BKAA - ancestor wall charts, multipage ancestor, large ahnentafel COPYPART - split a database BKMERGE - merge two databases Here is a summary of the changes in version 5.0. 1. A person may be given two sets of parents. 2. Designate type of parents (default is birth - others are adopted, step, foster, other). You may do this for one set of parents or both. 3. Source lines (3 full lines for each date/location) may be entered to show where you found information about an event (date/location). The experts say "document your sources". 5. Mailing address information and phone number may be entered. (press F4) 6. The size of the files is limited only by your disk size. If you have enough disk space, you may enter 999,999 individuals. The previous limit was 15,000 (or 18,000 if you stretched it.) 7. Unique locations are saved on disk only once (to save disk space). 8. The built in editor can edit 120 lines instead of only 24. Also, it now includes word wrap when typing. 12. A quality of data field is shown after the page field in sources. This information is used by programs such as Roots III to track the reliability of the data shown. If the date referenced is a guess, make it quality 0. 13. There is limited mouse support. For menu and data entry and editor. 15. Every word in the program can be changed by using the BK5WORDS program. When the Brother's Keeper program starts, it reads a file containing the desired words. The same Brother's Keeper program will run in a foreign language (already translated into French, German, Polish, Danish, and Norwegian.) 21. In modify, while on the bottom line type / to delete a person. This will physically erase the person, and terminate all links to parents, spouses, and children. That person's code number will then not be used again, although the disk space will be used by another number. 23. BKAUDIT is a file which contains information about changes that you have made with Modify. It will contain the date of change, the person's code number, and the old and new value of changes to the name, any of the five dates for a person, the ref field and the occupation field. It will not currently record the location changes or marriage information changes. 28. In the utility program, you may print all sources, delete unused sources, and change sources. 29. For Group sheets, you may print footnotes for the source notes that you entered. 30. Also for Group sheets you may pick type C for compressed children data and that will print a group sheet with lots of information packed onto one page. Several people have asked for a group sheet that shows all information for up to 10 children on one sheet of paper. The Compressed choice will do this. 31. Also in Group sheets you may print an index of names and pages. 35. In addition to ALT-A thru ALT-Z, you can use ALT-1 thru ALT-0 and ALT-- and ALT-= (basically the top row of white keys). Alt fields are 78 characters. When in a name field, (while in Add or Modify) press F6 to enter an alternate name for a person. I suggest you enter the birth name in the normal name field and the current name in the alternate name field. This is for people who have changed their name or have been adopted and use a new last name. ====================================================================== >>>>> Author's documentation ends That's some of the changes. My request for an integrated menu system have been taken care of before John even received the request ;-) All the programs are accesible from a central menu. The shareware registration is up from $40US to $45US. Really an excellent program! Hope this is of interest to some of you out there. Groetnis (=cheers) Deon -- Deon Strydom INTERNET: Deon.Strydom@p9.f2.n7104.z5.fidonet.org ========================================================================= Date: Sat, 28 Sep 1991 23:38:00 EDT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List From: MAJ LARRY REED Subject: Computer Hardware Prices E L E C T R O N I C M A I L (DDN Host Address: GW1.HANSCOM.AF.MIL) Date: 28-Sep-1991 23:38 From: Maj Lawrence A. Reed Username: REEDL Dept: ESD/TNU-2 Tel No: (617) 377-7221 TO: _WINS% ( _DDN[ROOTS-L@VM1.NODAK.EDU] ) Subject: Computer Hardware Prices Some time ago there was a discussion on the list regarding which hardware to use for genealogical computing. A sub-discussion was prices. Here is a sample of pricing from the Boston area. Should be similar to other areas as have seen prices close to these in mail-order ads. 386-33 Opti chipset w/INTEL 386DX33 CPU, 64K CACHE, 1MB RAM, 1-1.2MB floppy 5-1/4", 1-1.44MB floppy 3-1/2", SVGA card with 512K RAM, SVGA multi-frequency .28 pitch 1024X768 monitor, 130MB Seagate hard drive w/IDE controller, I/O/game card, mini-tower case w/digital clock speed display ---$1325.00 286-12 1MB RAM 1-1.2MB floppy 1-1.44MB floppy VGA card w/256K RAM VGA monitor 40MB IDE drive ---$650 2400 BAUD internal modem w/MNP software correction/compression protocol ---$50 3 button dual mode mouse w/drivers ---$15 SVGA card w/1MB RAM ---$109 Windows 3.0 ---$50 1 MB SIMMs ---$36 All brand new, in the box with manufacturer's warranty, computer company local w/1 year parts and labor warranty. If you are paying more than this, your supplier is behind the times and you should look around some more! These are legitimate prices (I bought the first system listed for $1325.00 at a local show as did about 50 others that day and am using it right now.). Larry REEDL@gw1.hanscom.af.mil ========================================================================= Date: Mon, 30 Sep 1991 19:17:57 GMT Reply-To: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Sender: ROOTS-L Genealogy List Comments: Warning -- original Sender: tag was NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU From: Vic Abell Subject: Re: Brother's Keeper for Macintosh? In article <1991Sep30.131029.33934@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> mouse@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes: >Does Brother's Keeper work on Macintosh, too? BK is for PC/MS-DOS. The catalog of software reviews from "Genealogical Computing" that I posted last week lists two shareware Hypercard stacks and one shareware application for the Mac. Family Tree (ver 1.0) Jim Palms P.O. Box 70218 Bellevue, WA 98007 $5 shareware registration; Macintosh; Hypercard Stack Genealogy Data Base (ver 1.1) Kevin Mennitt 208 Baker Avenue Westfield, NJ 07090 $5 shareware registration; Macintosh; Hypercard stack. MacRoots (ver 7.0.1) Bruce W. Muckala Itaska Softworks Rt. 1, Box 408 Bagley, MN 56621 Macintosh shareware: has GEDCOM support; can be found on most genealogical bulletin boards; handles about 2,000 records.