From roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com Sat Jul 22 15:36:31 2006 Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.65.34]) by admin.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k6MLaVjb001089; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:36:31 -0600 Received: from roots-l.rootsweb.com (roots-l.rootsweb.com [66.43.16.22]) by mail.rootsweb.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MLaSI1029526 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 15:36:28 -0600 Received: from roots-l.rootsweb.com (roots-l [127.0.0.1]) by roots-l.rootsweb.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k6MIwFFI024400 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:58:15 -0400 Received: (from roots-in@localhost) by roots-l.rootsweb.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id k6MIwE21024399 for roots-approved@rootsweb.com; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:58:14 -0400 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [66.43.27.41]) by roots-l.rootsweb.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with SMTP id k6MHwVFI024242 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:58:31 -0400 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id k6MKaYib032726 for roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:36:34 -0600 X-Envelope-From: DunfordGuthrie@cox.net Sat Jul 22 14:36:34 2006 Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.65.34]) by admin.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k6MKaYjb032715 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:36:34 -0600 Received: from fed1rmmtao06.cox.net (fed1rmmtao06.cox.net [68.230.241.33]) by mail.rootsweb.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k6MKaVgq021915 for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 14:36:31 -0600 Received: from TOWER ([68.0.155.47]) by fed1rmmtao06.cox.net (InterMail vM.6.01.06.01 201-2131-130-101-20060113) with ESMTP id <20060722203627.EWWS6235.fed1rmmtao06.cox.net@TOWER> for ; Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:36:27 -0400 From: "Dunford Guthrie" To: Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 13:36:14 -0700 Message-ID: <019e01c6adce$7d1c6940$6601a8c0@TOWER> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.6626 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Importance: Normal X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 192.168.65.34 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 192.168.65.34 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by admin.rootsweb.com id k6MKaYjb032715 Subject: [ROOTS-L] AWT, OWT, and Ancestry.com Sender: roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com To all: This is pretty long, and those without Ancestry.com subscriptions, or those without OneWorldTree add-on subscription, can quit reading now, because this is not applicable to other venues. Margaret M. and I have spent the past few days digging in to the problem she was having on Ancestry, where it appeared that information she had entered as "maybe's" was being picked up by Ancestry and added to the "trees." It also appeared that they were changing what she had put in, because she was re-directed to other names. The case in question had a William Lee Ball (the correct name, entered by Margaret) and a William Daniel Ball (the incorrect name, from 18 AWT trees). I have learned, and Margaret has learned, a great deal while working with the problem, so I am going to attempt to explain it, in order that you will know what happened, and the effect it may have on you. You may find you like the feature, you may not. I know others were also working on this problem, so it really was a group effort! On Ancestry.com there are two sites (databases) where there are family trees. The oldest, and the one most of us are familiar with is now called Ancestry World Tree, or AWT. On this site, people can upload complete trees, with notes, sources, and so on. What you see when you look up a tree, is similar to a page of paper. You can copy the information (copy/paste function) but you cannot add to or change the information. Sometimes you can download a GEDCOM. If you have a disagreement about what is there, you can find the submitter's name and write him/her, or you can leave a post-em note. Here is Ancestry's description: "The Ancestry World Tree was created to bring family historians together. When you upload your family tree, you are sharing your discoveries with other researchers and helping others to find success in their family history work. You may even find lost relatives who have information on your family. You can change, update or remove your work from the Ancestry World Tree at any time." One World Tree, or OWT, is a computer driven database that temporarily merges trees from AWT, along with other information (I'm not sure what, since I've not seen it, but that's what they say). Using OWT, you can get an idea of alternative thoughts on parents, children, birthdates, etc. without going to each family tree in AWT. Here is Ancestry's description: "OneWorldTree takes family trees submitted by Ancestry members and "stitches" them together with family trees and historical records from other sources. OneWorldTree identifies probable name matches between these sources and displays consolidated results in a worldwide family tree that can help you with your family history research." Unlike the AWT, however, when you look a person's information in OWT, you find two things: There may be several "versions" of a name, spouse, parents, etc. And You find that you can edit the information, add to it, delete people, etc. But, when you do that, what happens to the information? That has not been clear, and this was what caused the problem. In hindsight (always 20/20, of course) Ancestry "sort of" tells us about this: "It's a way to simplify your research. OneWorldTree is a sophisticated system that processes hundreds of millions of names, dates and places from family trees and census records. It finds and merges probable matches between these sources. Keep in mind, OneWorldTree can at times run into contradictory details along the way. How does OneWorldTree decide what information to display to Ancestry members? When members add family tree information to OneWorldTree, they essentially "vote" for that information. The information with the most "votes" is what OneWorldTree recommends. *****At the same time, your view of your family tree in OneWorldTree will always show the information you originally entered.*****" It is the last sentence here (where I put the ****s) that is really important. Several of us couldn't figure out what Margaret was viewing, because we weren't seeing the changes she had made, but which were now apparently (to her eyes) incorporated into the trees. I would use the same search terms, and never find the same person from my computer. We were pulling our hair out. Well, the reason was because the "additions/subtractions/changes" are "attached" to the "user name" Long story short. Let's say you find an OWT tree that has one of your target ancestors, but is missing a child. This tree that you see is "stitched" from three AWT trees. You can "use" this tree, instead of your own database at home, to create "your" tree. So, you can add the child. Maybe you have some birthdates or spouses for other children, so you edit the person, and add that information. Or, maybe there are two versions of a birth date (from the AWT trees), you can select the one you have source information on. What happens: **No tree in AWT is changed at all. These changes are made only in OWT, and only in "your" OWT. **Presumably, if enough of the people working on this name agree on a birth date, say, the birth date on the person page (not the "edit") page will reflect the "new" date. But even there, the "edit page" will reflect all the alternatives. **You, as long as you are signed in with the same user name as the one you used when you were signed on and created the person, can search and find the person using the search screen. **No one else can do this. We won't find the person. **No one else can see what you have put down. This allows you to speculate, perhaps, without the danger of another person assuming it is "fact." An advantage to this, in my mind, is if you have "uploaded" your GEDCOM to AWT, it becomes one of the "sources" of information for the OWT. Now, if you are in a library somewhere (with internet access, of course) and you find some important information, you can sign into Ancestry, go to OWT, find your "person" and edit the information right there. When you get home, you can go to your own computer, and the information is still right where you left it! Disadvantage is, unfortunately, is that I haven't seen anyplace to put sources and notes! And, if you *wanted* to "add" a name and make it visible to other researchers, other than uploading a GEDCOM, I don't see how to do that. Perhaps someone on the list who has had more experience with this can help us on that. And, I suspect that there are people on this list who think they have done that, by adding the person to "their" page. Since they will always see it, why wouldn't others. Now, I understand Margaret's dilemma -- it surely looked to her as though information was being uploaded for all to see when she made additions/changes/speculations. I must say, I got a bit testy here and there, but we hung in, and resolved the problem. Thanks, Margaret, for being open-minded enough to stick it out, even while you stuck to your guns! Pat (in Tucson)