From roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com Wed Jan 18 22:39:13 2006 Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.16.34]) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k0J5dDSK008441; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:39:13 -0700 Received: from roots-l.rootsweb.com (roots-l.rootsweb.com [66.43.16.22]) by mail.rootsweb.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k0J5dAjb024374 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:39:10 -0700 Received: from roots-l.rootsweb.com (roots-l [127.0.0.1]) by roots-l.rootsweb.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k0J3BsFI004406 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:11:54 -0500 Received: (from roots-in@localhost) by roots-l.rootsweb.com (8.12.10/8.12.8/Submit) id k0J3Bs0j004405 for roots-approved@rootsweb.com; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:11:54 -0500 Received: from lists5.rootsweb.com (lists5.rootsweb.com [66.43.18.41]) by roots-l.rootsweb.com (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id k0J2vTFI004326 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 21:57:29 -0500 Received: (from slist@localhost) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) id k0J5OZeg002568 for roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:24:35 -0700 X-Envelope-From: whitleys@ptd.net Wed Jan 18 22:24:35 2006 Received: from mail.rootsweb.com (mail.rootsweb.com [192.168.16.34]) by lists5.rootsweb.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP id k0J5OZSK002559 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:24:35 -0700 Received: from smtpg.ha-net.ptd.net (smtpg.ha-net.ptd.net [207.44.96.87]) by mail.rootsweb.com (8.13.4/8.13.4) with ESMTP id k0J5OUZN014091 for ; Wed, 18 Jan 2006 22:24:31 -0700 Received: (qmail 7927 invoked by uid 50005); 19 Jan 2006 05:21:43 -0000 Received: from whitleys@ptd.net by smtpg.ha-net.ptd.net by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.20 (uvscan: v4.4.00/v4674. spamassassin: 2.60. Clear:RC:1(24.152.207.123):. Processed in 0.049712 secs); 19 Jan 2006 05:21:43 -0000 Received: from 24.152.207.123.res-cmts.eph.ptd.net (HELO FredsDesktop) ([24.152.207.123]) (envelope-sender ) by smtpg.ha-net.ptd.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with SMTP for ; 19 Jan 2006 05:21:43 -0000 From: "Frederick H. Whitley" To: "Dudley Vernon Doyle" , Cc: "Fred Whitley" , "Harry Brown" , "John Herman" , "Harlan Boyer" Subject: RE: [ROOTS-L] Serial Numbers and the"Old Army" Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 00:24:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <000b01c61b2b$47386620$0a00a8c0@yourze8cxvr8tt> X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 192.168.16.34 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.52 on 192.168.16.34 Sender: roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com Dudley, Very interesting. Point of interest (to me!), my Dad's serial number was 36,000,000 !!Stay well. Fred in PA -----Original Message----- From: roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com [mailto:roots-in@roots-l.rootsweb.com]On Behalf Of Dudley Vernon Doyle Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2006 12:59 AM To: ROOTS-M@rootsweb.com Subject: [ROOTS-L] Serial Numbers and the"Old Army" I am a veteran of WW II , Korea and Vietnam among other places. I did wear "Brown Shoes" and also what in those days was called a "Sam Brown Belt". The "Brown Shoes" were not brown boots, but were worn with canvas laced leggings! Before WWII there were no Paratrooper Boots or Tanker Boots! Only the "brown shoes" (that came up above the ankles). In the field and in "dress formations" these brown shoes were worn with laced leggings (went up to just below the knee). This was worn by all Infantry troops and others except for The Calvary, which had leather leggings. As for the serial numbering system, it goes something like this: Before and at the beginning of WWII, in the Congenital United States, there were 6 Army Areas Or "Armies". The First US Army was in the Northeastern United States and the Sixth US Army was in the far Western States. During WWII only the Second US Army and the Fourth US Army remained in the congenital United States. The other US Army's , The 1st, 3rd, 5th and 6th all went overseas. And the 7th and 8th Armies were formed and went overseas as well as some units called Army Groups were formed (10th, 11th and 12th). The Navy also had in the United States what was called Naval Districts. I am not that familiar with the Naval districts to discuss that. Now we get down to where or what the "Serial Numbers" were based or derived from! Also within the Congenital United States as well as there being Army Areas ( Armies 1 thru 6) there were 9 Corps Areas and this is what the Serial number was derived from. (A note: the serial number has nothing to do with the date of birth!) As has been said by many of you the first number of the serial number did and still denotes the source of the military member. And as many of you have said the "1" represents that the military member was a volunteer! (This can be somewhat misleading, because if you first or originally "volunteered" the member will always carry the same serial number and it will always begin with the "1" or whatever their original "source" was. And by the same thing , if the person was drafted it will always be a "3" at the beginning of the serial number.) Also someone wrote that only the Army had draftees during WWII! This is not true, during WWII, when the inductee arrived at the induction station, this is what would happen. Depending upon the current needs (at that time) of the different military services, they might take the first 500 and send them to the Army and the next 200 would go to the Navy and so forth and so forth. That is one of the main reasons for someone to volunteer during WWII, if they wanted to go to the Navy they had to volunteer for the Navy and pass their physical. Dwelling a little more on the first number of the serial number. The number "1" did denote Regular Army, a "2" would represent a National Guard and a "3" would represent a non volunteer or a so called "draftee". Now dwelling a little more on the "prefixes" before the serial number, there were quite a few and I don't remember them all out of my head. RA did represent a prefix for a Regular Army Member, NG represents a National Guard Member, ER represents an Enlisted Reservist, AUS (abbreviated US) represents a "draftee", O denotes an Officer, W represents a Warrant Officer and there are others. And of course the Air Force has AF and the Navy has N and these other services may have others that I am not aware of at present! OK, now getting back to the serial number and the "second" number in the serial number. This is where the old Corps Areas designation comes in, The "First Corps Area" included, for instance, Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, etc,. Volunteers from these states (Corps Area I) would have a serial number starting out with a "1" (denoting volunteer or RA), the second number of the serial number would be a "1" also denoting the 1st Corps Area, so the serial number would be 11------. If the person was a "draftee", it would be 31------, if the volunteer was a volunteer from, say New York, which was in the 2nd Corps Area, their serial number would be 1 (meaning volunteer) and 2 (meaning II Corps Area), hence 12------. By the same example a "draftee" would be 32------ from New York, or any other State in the II Corps area. The first or original serial number was only used one time whether he started out as a "draftee" "3" or what and followed that person during his entire life. If he was in the Army and went to the Navy, Air Force, Marines the same serial number followed that person. Later on in years after WWII, around 1964, the Military Services started using the Social Security Account Number to identify everyone. They still do use this system of identification. I hope that I have not confused too many people with this long winded detail, but I also hope that I have shed some "light" and brought back some rememberances of things in the past! Some "good times" and also some "bad times" for some of us. I am sure that some of you will have some comments about what I have written, so go ahead and "Shoot Away", I don"t promise that I will answer but I will probably read your comments with interest! Dudley Doyle North Carolina