Many thanks to Charlie Towne for compiling this info! ************************************ A few weeks ago I posted an article in soc.roots/roots-l asking for advice on buying computer hardware for genealogy work. I told you I'd send you the results for an FAQ file you're working on. Well, here they are, finally. I received almost 20 replies, most via email, but 3 or 4 were posted to soc.roots/roots-l. My original posting was: >My two sisters and I are thinking about buying a PC for our mother, >the family genealogist. She doesn't have any background in computing, >but has recently started using an Epson (IBM clone) at her local library, >and is having lots of fun. >I'm interested in recommendations on what hardware to get. Whatever we >buy should be able to run PAF, since that's what she's familiar with. >I've been monitoring this group for a while, and have looked in the >ROOTS-L files, but haven't found this kind of basic information yet. >Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? > 3. How large a hard disk? > 4. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? > 5. What about printers? >Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Please email if possible, >since I suspect this is old stuff to regulars in this group. In general, the results may be summarized as follows: 1. A 286 is fine for genealogy, but a 386 or 386SX might be better if it will be used for other things too. There were also 3 or 4 strong recommendations for a Macintosh. 2. 1 meg RAM is enough to start, 2 meg if getting a 386 with Windows, or a Mac. 3. Most thought a 40 meg hard disk was plenty, but some recommended more. 4. Getting a good quality monitor and printer was emphasized by many. Some mentioned that a color monitor wasn't necessary for genealogy, but it was nice to have, and more fun. A 24-pin dot matrix was usually recommended as a minimum, or even a laser printer. 5. Almost everyone recommended getting both sizes of floppy drives - a 5 1/4 for compatibility with lots of existing software and data, and a 3 1/2 for new stuff because they're more durable and hold more. Below are all the replies I received, both email and posted. Since in my original post I asked for email, and didn't say I'd be posting a summary, it's possible that some people who responded may not have wanted their response made public. (Although I don't know why, there's nothing very controversial about this subject.) Anyway, just to be safe, I sent mail to each person asking for permission to forward their response to you. Everyone said OK, except for three people I haven't heard from yet. In the replies included below, I've therefore left the sender's name off the last four messages. Hope this helps in putting together your FAQ file. Charlie --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Scott Dickson +1 814 865 0829" As far as what kind of minimum configuration for PAF, I'm using an ancient IBM XT w/ 512K and a 10MB drive. It's really slow with a database of about 1800 people, but I get by. PAF is pretty efficient as far as its general access patterns, so the only time speed is a problem is in sorts. Also, sometimes when I run PAF, instead of just FR, and then try to do fancy prints, I run out of memory. Did you know that PAF supports a mouse? Works pretty nicely in the pedigree chart (option 4). That way, you almost never need to use the rest of the menu. I'm replacing my xt with a 386/33 this summer, tho. I expect PAF will work better then. --SCott --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Roger Egeberg In article <1991Apr30.213001.7252@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> you write: > >Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? > 3. How large a hard disk? > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? > Let me answer your question twice. You asked about using PAF, so I'll answer considering only PAF, and then again looking to the future and other possible uses. (Did that make sense?) For running PAF and other genealogical work: 1. I run PAF at home on a 286 and it runs very nicely. 2. 1 meg is plenty 3. 40 meg should be plenty 4. I would suggest VGA card with a decent quality color VGA monitor. If you're running out of money, I think monochrome (black & white) VGA monitors are also available. PAF doesn't do much with color or graphics, so I wouldn't get a high resolution or multi-sync type monitor. Whatever you do, don't get one with a CGA card and monitor. It is much easier on the eyes to look at the characters on a VGA (or EGA) than those on a CGA. You'll probably want something with near letter quality print for printing letters. Most 9 pin dot-matrix printers now days have good near letter quality print. The 24 pin dot-matrix printers are even better. Of course, if you can afford it, a laser printer is REAL nice. 5. I'd get both, if you can. You'll find stuff on both sizes, and if you want to share things with someone else it is nice to be able to read and write both sizes of disk. Now, my recommendations in general: 1. Get a 386 if you can afford it - or at least a 386SX. If she is ever going to run Windows or some of the other new stuff coming out, it would be nice to have a 386. 2. I'd get 2 meg, but on most computers it is fairly easy to add more memory - and getting cheaper every day. 3. I'd probably get an 80 meg. 4. Same as above. 5. Same as above. I hope this helps. It's tough to decide what to get, and it seems that the more research you do, the more options you find that are available. Normally I'd also suggest looking at a MacIntosh, but since she has already started learning in the PC world, she's over that first big hump. -- Roger Egeberg NDSU Extension Service BITNET: nu062423@ndsuvm1.BITNET North Dakota State University Internet: egeberg@plains.NoDak.edu --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "Ellen K. Seebacher" In article <1991Apr30.213001.7252@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> you write: >I'm interested in recommendations on what hardware to get. Whatever we >buy should be able to run PAF, since that's what she's familiar with. >I've been monitoring this group for a while, and have looked in the >ROOTS-L files, but haven't found this kind of basic information yet. > > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? Skip 'em both and get a 680x0 (also known as a Macintosh). PAF on a Mac is an absolute joy to use, and runs well even on a 68000; if you want something a little more advanced, the new Macs are based on 68020 and 68030 chips. > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? Two, at least. (PAF runs fine under 1, but System 7 is coming out soon....) > 3. How large a hard disk? Twenty megabytes, at absolute minimum. More won't hurt. > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? For your mother, probably a Classic (built-in monitor) or LC (your choice, though the basic color monitor is nice). We have an Imagewriter II at home, but I understand the new StyleWriters are pretty good. > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? 3.5" floppies are becoming standard even in the DOS world. They're also a lot harder to damage. Good luck, Ellen Keyne Seebacher (elle@midway.uchicago.edu) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: pettit@adobe.com (Teri Pettit) In article <1991Apr30.213001.7252@eagle.lerc.nasa.gov> you write: >My two sisters and I are thinking about buying a PC for our mother, >the family genealogist. She doesn't have any background in computing, >but has recently started using an Epson (IBM clone) at her local library, >and is having lots of fun. > >I'm interested in recommendations on what hardware to get. Whatever we >buy should be able to run PAF, since that's what she's familiar with. >I've been monitoring this group for a while, and have looked in the >ROOTS-L files, but haven't found this kind of basic information yet. Have you read any issues of Genealogical Computing, a quarterly magazine from Ancestry, Inc.? They have reviews of both hardware and software from a genealogists perspective. PAF runs on IBM compatibles, Macintoshes, and Apple II's. The Apple II is rapidly being desupported, and is pretty much of a toy anyway. Your primary choice is between a Mac and an IBM compatible. The main advantage of an IBM is that there is a lot more home and hobbyist software for it, mainly because a Mac used to be much more expensive. (It had no clones to drive down the pricing.) This caused most software for the Mac to be aimed at business and other professional uses, as the home market was not big enough to be worth targetting. Apple has now decided to price the low-end Macintoshes in the same range as IBM clones, to grab some of that market of people for whom price is a very fixed constraint. But even though there is no longer much of a price differential, for things like genealogy, which do not have a big professional market, there is still a chicken and egg problem with software. The software developers don't want to target a market which is not yet very big, and the market grows very slowly because it is inhibited by lack of hobbyist software. In the case of PAF, there are a lot of second-party utilities for the IBM version which are not available for the Mac. You tend to order these through the mail from notices in bulletin boards or ads in genealogy magazines. The utilities do things like draw charts in formats which PAF does not provide, or sort lists in non-standard orders, etc. The main advantage of the Mac is that it is a lot easier and more fun to use. Microsoft Windows does not do very much to even this out. For one thing, a pretty small proportion of MSDOS programs run under Windows. If you limit yourself to Windows programs, your choice is a lot less than you have on a Mac, and more choice of software was the biggest reason to pick an IBM-compatible anyway. For another thing, you still have to deal with the operating system and hardware before you start your application program. Setting up a new IBM is complicated. Setting up any Mac, you just take it out of the box, plug it in, and push the boot button. The system is already installed. There are no options to set. It's easier than hooking up a VCR. More like plugging in a microwave. Most Macintosh programs can be used effectively without ever reading the manual! There are no file names or command names to remember, since everything is right in front of you. (Another advantage of a Mac that not very many people are aware of is that it is faster, for a comparable amount of money, especially on any tasks that take a large amount of memory. The system architecture takes better advantage of increased memory.) I have a Macintosh (IIci), and would not consider changing. But I am frustrated with the limited availability of genealogy software for it. I wish they would make a Mac version of Roots III, for example. There are emulation programs which let you run any DOS program inside an IBM-emulation window, but I hate IBM-style user interfaces, and am not sure I could stomach communicating with a PC program on my Mac. >Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? This is assuming you are going with an IBM-compatible. I don't know much about 286 vs. 386 for home use. > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? Always get as much memory as you can afford. I would say 2 meg is a minimum. I have 8 meg, and I still sometimes wish I had more. Memory is pretty cheap right now, about $50 a meg. Especially with database operations, which have to do searching, it is much faster the more of the data you can fit in memory. > 3. How large a hard disk? If you do not save a lot of text files, or buy a huge number of programs, the smallest is probably adequate. I have a 40 meg internal hard disk, and an 80 meg external one (a very cute Liberty portable drive, about the size of a large paperback book.) Which are both almost full. But that is because I am a software developer, and software sources are BIG. My genealogy folder only takes up 3 meg, of which only about 650K is for my PAF files, and they have over 3000 individuals in them, more than half of whom have notes. PAF is a VERY compact format. About 1 meg is for my genealogical correspondence (107 letters written in Microsoft Word I have written over the last three years), about 650K is the PAF software itself (not all of which is needed), and the rest is 39 Adobe Illustrator charts I have drawn. A home user who does nothing but build genealogy databases and write letters can probably go for a very long time on a 20 meg hard disk. > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? For genealogy use, you probably do not need a color monitor, although they are more fun. But a high resolution monitor makes a lot of difference. You can read the screen more easily, and fit more text on it. For home use, you can probably go with an inexpensive dot matrix printer, unless your mother lives in a rural area. This is because in almost any city, it is very easy to go to a shop downtown and have them run off your files on a laser printer when you want better quality, at about the same cost per page as photocopies. But if it is inconvenient to get to such a shop, and there is no other access to one such as at work or a library, then you might want a laser printer at home. I do not have a printer at home at all, and only print at work. Even if I did not have such access to free printing at work, I do not think I would buy a printer for home. I would much rather spend the money on other components of the system. Figure out how much money you have to spend, and then get the best of each component you can, in the priority order: processor, memory, monitor, hard disk, printer. You (or your mother) are going to be working on the computer, looking at the screen, a lot more of the time than you are going to be printing anything or taking things on and off disk. Printing is available as a service, and it is not that bad to have to store excess files on floppies when you run out of hard disk space. But you will want to make the time you spend entering data, searching files, and composing letters as pleasant as possible. > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? If you get an IBM compatible, you will want at least one 5 1/4 inch floppy drive, because that is how most software is delivered. That is the only reason, though. The 3 1/2 inch format is denser and much less prone to damage. If you get a Macintosh, it is not an issue. Hope this helps you make a decision. Best wishes however you go. Teri Pettit pettit@adobe.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: George Waller On Tue, 30 Apr 91 21:30:01 GMT you said: >My two sisters and I are thinking about buying a PC for our mother, >the family genealogist. She doesn't have any background in computing, >but has recently started using an Epson (IBM clone) at her local library, >and is having lots of fun. > Big question: who will help her with the hardware/software installation, maintenance, backups, etc. I encouraged my parents to buy a computer which is arriving Thursday... they live in Texas and I live in Conn. I expect a big phone bill next month! >I'm interested in recommendations on what hardware to get. Whatever we >buy should be able to run PAF, since that's what she's familiar with. >I've been monitoring this group for a while, and have looked in the >ROOTS-L files, but haven't found this kind of basic information yet. > This hasn't been discussed recently and since hardware/software changes so rapidly, it's worth talking about. >Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? It always depends on what you want to do and what you want to spend. Right now a 386SX is affordable and almost certainly enough. Guessing at what you mother will want to do, I suspect that a 286 would also be enough. > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? 386SX will probably come with Windows 3.0 and you'll want 2 meg for that. For a 286, 640K should be enough. You can always add memory. > 3. How large a hard disk? 386SX -- 40 MB. 286 (without Windows): 20 MB > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? Get VGA color-- well worth it. Printer-- laserjet if you can afford it otherwise 24-pin dot matrix (e.g. Epson LQ510 $250) > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? Get both at high density. > Here is what my parents got: Gateway 386SX, 16 MHz, 2 MB RAM, 40 MB harddrive, 3.5" HD, 5.25" HD, internal 2400 baud modem, Windows 3.0, DOS 4.01 for $1599 plus $95 shipping, no tax. Also, Epson LQ510 for $250. The purpose of getting the PC is for genealogy. Needless to say, I make no assurances that the advise above is any good (but I hope so otherwise I'm in big trouble with my folks!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ George Waller, Microcomputer Consultant HBLADM1@UCONNVM.BITNET Homer Babbidge Library, University of Connecticut, Storrs CT 06269-1005 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ George Waller, UConn, HBLADM1@UCONNVM.BITNET --> Happy Hunting! May Pole please: Parents for Nancy Jane Hunter (1862-1916 Lincoln Co TN) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: mark@motown.altair.fr Charlie -- Having gone through the same questions a year or so ago, here's what I would recommend: > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? A 286 should be plenty. PAF should work OK even on an XT, but I've heard that it's not the most efficient program in the world, so a 286 might give a noticeable improvement in performance. A 386 would in my opinion be overkill -- unless, of course, you've got other things in mind for the computer besides genealogy. My own database (not PAF) runs just fine on an 8086 Tandy laptop! > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? PAF doesn't know how to use more than 640K. > 3. How large a hard disk? That depends, of course, on how much stuff she's got. The "Notes" section tends to take up the most space. Still, a 20MB hard disk (generally the minimum that you'll find offered) should be plenty. I've got nearly a thousand people in less than a megabyte; even considering that my system is probably more space efficient than PAF, and that I don't have much in the way of notes (yet), 20MB should still be plenty. > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? If you're doing only genealogy, which doesn't require fancy graphics or color, any monitor will do except the old MDA (low-resolution monochrome alphanumeric), whose font quality is bad on the eyes. That's the only real consideration, unless, again, you think you might get into other types of software. Printer? I've no idea what PAF can do in terms of output, but don't buy a fancy PostScript printer if PAF can't use it. > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? Whichever the Epson at your mother's library uses. (That way she can sneak in and use *their* printer, and you don't need to get one at all!) Summary: Think hard about whether you are likely to use the computer for color graphics games, writing programs, drawing, desktop publishing and that sort of stuff. If the answer is no, get a bottom-of-the-line 286. If the answer is yes, write me back and I'll alter my advice accordingly. -- Mark James or --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: well!tswift@apple.com (Theodore John Swift) > My two sisters and I are thinking about buying a PC for our mother, > the family genealogist. She doesn't have any background in computing, > but has recently started using an Epson (IBM clone) at her local library, > and is having lots of fun. > I'm interested in recommendations on what hardware to get. Whatever we > buy should be able to run PAF, since that's what she's familiar with. You may want to *consider* buying a Macintosh. The new Mac Classic is (finally!) comparable in price to a similarly-priced PC "Compatible" system, and the vastly superior software consistency is worth considering for a not-so-techie user. There's a version of PAF for the Mac, and I can recommend it from personal experience. Commsoft in Mountain View, CA, also recently released their new program "Sesame", which works on both PCs and Macs. It's geared more toward organizing your ongoing research, while PAF is better for organizing stuff you're sure about :-). > Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? A 286 should be plenty, since in genealogy the system speed is generally limited by the user rather than the hardware :-). Word processing and PAF do not make severe demands of a computer. > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? On a PC system, 1 or 2 megs should be plenty, since most software has to be bent into pretzel shapes to work with more than 640K anyway. On the Mac, the Classic comes with 1 Meg standard, I believe, but 2 Megs is nice. Memory is cheap now, so it's not a big deal to buy more. > 3. How large a hard disk? 20 should be plenty for most stuff, but it's getting harder to find something as *small* as a 20 Meg drive. 40 should do just fine, though, and won't be much more expensive than a 20. > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? This whole hardware and compatibility mess is another reason I'd recommend a Mac: you don't have to deal with the various incompatible monitor styles (EGA, VGA, etc.). The new 27-or-so pin dot-matrix printers give pretty good results at a low price, though the ink jet and laserprint printers are dropping in price. It depends on your budget. As for floppies, everyone seems to be moving to 3 1/2 for new software, though for compatibility with the rest of computing history, 5 1/4 is not dead yet. I find the 3 1/2 disks very convenient and reliable: the rigid shell protects the disk, you can blithely drop them in a shirt pocket, they store more than a 5 1/4, etc. etc. -- ---------------------- Ted Swift tswift@well.sf.ca.us "You bally well are informed, Jeeves! Do you know everything?" "I don't know, sir" ~P.G. Wodehouse --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: aa581@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Sandra Rozhon) Hi, Saw your request for suggestions on what sort of hardware to buy for your mother on soc.roots and thought I'd offer my ideas. If she will not be doing any heavy number crunching or graphics work (ala CAD), a 286 will be more than sufficient. A meg or two of memory are very desireable if she plans to use something like Desqview where one program remains in memory while you work in another. As for harddrives....buy the biggest you can afford. They fill up faster than you can imagine! I have a 30 meg and am constantly taking things off just to make room. I'd say 40 meg minimum for a 286. And where floppies are concerned, one 5-1/4" and one 3-1/2" would be ideal. You can store a lot of backup on a 3-1/2" disk....sometimes a whole program *and* data should you not want to keep it on the harddrive. (good for games and infrequently used utilities). I hope that answered all your questions. Sandy -- |~~~~~|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|~~~~~| | O | From: Sandra Rozhon aa581@cleveland.freenet.edu | O | | | Genealogy SIG (go roots) Free-Net: (216)/368-3888 | | | O | Wordprocessing SIG (go wp) telnet via: 129.22.8.75 | O | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: "2943 Olman, Melvin D." Charlie: you asked about hardware for genealogy work, using PAF. >Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? > 3. How large a hard disk? > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? > I'm far from an expert, but I'll relate my experiences. I got along fine for several years running PAF on an XT-clone with 512 KB of memory and a 20 MB hard disk. (I sent it with my daughter to college last fall, so I had an excuse to but a 386!) It had a hi-res monochrome monitor and one 5 1/4 inch floppy. Thus, IF genealogy is all she's going to us it for, a 286 with 1 meg RAM would do nicely. The biggest question is quality of printer. A 24-pin is nice; I now have a Panasonic 1124 [now superceded by newer model] which does a very nice job of "near-letter-quality" printing, when I want it. A laser printer would be very nice, of course, but they cost a bit more. If she expects to "publish," it might be worth getting a laser printer, now or later. Mel * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Melvin D. Olman (Mel) Internet: mdolman@sandia.gov 7000 Elna Ct. NE ATT: (505) 884-4663 Albuquerque, NM 87110-1408 Yes, New Mexico is in the USA! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Interest: Olman/Ulmen, Steffes, Rea, Worthington, Douglas, Hornbeck, Mundy, etc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: DEIS@ZODIAC.BITNET Hello Charlie Towne and Rooters, Charlie, you asked for EMAIL but this seems like a good topic to discuss out in the open. What kind of hardware do you need to do genealogy on computers? First, no matter WHAT program you are using, estimate the size of hard disk you think you want, and then buy one TWICE AS BIG. Nobody can ever believe how rapidly their hard disk filled up. And it takes a person of real discipline not to have their hard disk 97% full at all times. So get a big hard disk, 30 meg minimum, bigger is better. For the other things you ask, screen, RAM, 286, 386... none of these make much difference if you are planning to use PAF. Personal Ancestral File was written to be the "Lingua Franca" of computer genealogy. It will run on nearly anything. BUT the questions are not irrelevant because if someone really gets INTO computer genealogy, they may eventually want to get the Cadillac of programs, Roots III. I can't run Roots III on any computer I own because of exactly the sort of things you are asking. For fancy software, you need fancy hardware! So if you can afford it, it's better to have it at the start. Frank FRANK.DEIS on GEnie DEIS@PISCES.RUTGERS.EDU --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Emmett Black Charlie Towne requested info about hardware configs... Personally, I think that the Macintosh LC is the best deal going. For under $2400, you can get a Mac LC with a color monitor and 4 megs of memory and a 40 (or was that 60?) meg hard disk... and also get a program called "soft-pc" that will let you emulate an ibm pc. Soft pc emulates sufficiently well that you can actually run MS windows under it ... the flight simulator runs too ("standard" for measuring "compatibility") ... performance is about like that of a standard 286 from IBM (the clones are faster than the "true-blue") ... Sooooo... you can run all of the ibm pc programs AND all of the Macintosh programs (you'll really like the mac version of PAF better than the ibm version). and if that wasn't enough, there is also an Apple-IIe board that makes the Mac LC emulate the Apple-II ... and you can run all THAT software too. (and a lot of the schools use the Apple-II's; others use the ibm pcs ... some use Macs; so you've got the kids covered...) You insert a 3.5 inch floppy, in either of these three formats, and the system can recognize and deal with them... True, the Mac LC is not as fast as the Mac II family (may be "as fast" as the original Mac II), and not as fast as the 386 pc compatibles... but it appears to be quite adequately fast (how fast can you blink?), and it certainly does give the best "coverage" ... with our company discount, this beastie comes WAY down in price. I'm thinking very seriously about ordering one of these Mac LC's for myself. --Emmett --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: reedl@GW1.HANSCOM.AF.MIL (MAJ LARRY REED) Regarding computer hardware for genealogists: A medium speed machine with adequate hard disk and color monitor (for flexibility - your won't use it for only genealogy) can be had nowadays for a nominal sum (price follows). I STRONGLY recommend the purchase of a mouse. PAF, for example, is a real pain without one, much less useable IMHO. Systems which emulate IBM are OK if they are fully compatible and the price is right. So, what would I buy? an IBM 286 AT 12 MHz clone min 40 MB hard drive 1.2 MB 5-1/4 floppy 1.44 MB 3-1/2 floppy 4MB RAM VGA card w/512K (I like 1MB better) RAM a good VGA monitor What should this cost? Well, in Boston at the monthly computer show/pc flea market a system like this sells brand new from a reputable company with a good warranty for about $800. A 386/25 with 100 MB HD sells for around $1650. You can get XTs for much less, but I personally find their lack of speed to be very frustrating. And since my machine is also used by other family members to compose music, play graphics-intensive games, etc., I wouldn't be satisfied with less than an AT. Others like MACs, but I have no experience there so won't comment. There's my 2 cents worth. Larry Reed reedl@gw1.hanscom.af.mil --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: fortmapl@UDAVXB.OCA.UDAYTON.EDU I really don't know what to recommend since I don't know too much about computers. What I can tell you is what I am using that works. I am using an IBM AT clone. It's a 286 12mHz w/ 1mb memory, a 20mb hard drive, a high density 5-1/4 floppy, and monochrome graphics (Hercules compatible), running IBM DOS 3.2 and for genealogy I'm using Family Ties. This works fine for me, but then I haven't tried any other software or hardware. Paul L. Fortman, University of Dayton fortmapl@dayton.bitnet fortmapl@udavxb.oca.udayton.edu - Genealogy Research: Blackwell, Fortman (Vortmann), Hewitt, Longenbaker, Reiling, Rom, Schenk, Wayman. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Howard Steel > Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? 286 is fine but the 386 will be quicker. > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? The more the merrier (up to a point), but 1 meg is fine. > 3. How large a hard disk? 40 Meg; 10's and 20's just seem to fill so fast with utilities and such that you zstart to press the space when it comes to databases. > 4. What quality monitor? If you aren't doing anything but text CGA or EGA are more than adequate. If you are concerned with graphics, better consider a VGA or better. > Printer? Again, you decide the quality. Desk top publishing? Then you want a laser. Very good quality prints for families friends (and maybe resumes and such), then a bubble-jet is the ticket. Otherwise just get yourself a good quality dot matrix printer (anywhere from 9 - 24 dot) > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? Yes; but if you can only afford one, than might as well make it 5 1/4 (still more stuff available on it than the other, but the 3 1/2 stores better). --- / / / / / / / / / / :-(I Think, Therefore I Am, I Think :-) / / / / / / / / / / / Howard.Steel@Waterloo.NCR.COM NCR CANADA LTD. - 580 Weber St. N / / (519)884-1710 Ext 570 Waterloo, Ont., N2J 4G5 / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / / --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Charlie: I use PAF version 2.2 using an IBM PS/2 model 25 (8086 processor, abt 10 mgz clock speed) with two 3.5" 720k floppies and no Hard Disk. I have 640k RAM. I use DOS 3.3. I bought this computer almost four years ago specifically for genealogy. I keep track of more than 5,000 individuals. It is very reliable (and no one makes a better keyboard than IBM - remember their expertise in typewriters). I wouldn't recommend anything smaller than this, because I feel you should get as much computer as you can afford. A 286 with a 40 meg HD would be a quantum leap for me. But I wouldn't buy just any brand computer for the non-techie. If you are looking for reliability and compatibility you can't go wrong with IBM. Today, you can get an IBM PS/2 model thirty with a 286 processor and HD cheaper than what I paid for this model 25. What I do recommend is to spend extra bucks and get a good printer. In genealogy, it is going to take a pounding and the print needs to be good and clear. By the way, IBM offers a 40% discount to full time students. This brings the price down the price to the cheapest clone. If you are or have a student in the family, check into it. The point? It's probably better to have a powerful engine and get there faster, but you'll get there just the same in a well built smaller machine. I do not represent IBM nor am I affiliated with them in any way. However, I have used their equipment since 1956 and found it very reliable, if not on the leading edge of technology. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: >I'm interested in recommendations on what hardware to get. Whatever we >buy should be able to run PAF, since that's what she's familiar with. >I've been monitoring this group for a while, and have looked in the >ROOTS-L files, but haven't found this kind of basic information yet. > >Some specifics I'm wondering about are: > > 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? A 286 is easily enough if it's mainly to be used for running PAF or other genealogy software. You may want a more powerful machine if she wants to get into publishing a family newsletter - desktop publishing can eat a lot of CPU time. > 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? Again, depends on future plans. 1 meg is fine to start; you can always buy more if the need develops. Keep in mind, though, that the IBM and clones can't easily address more than 640K of memory under DOS, which is why Windows 3.0 is such a big deal in the IBM market. All the RAM in the world won't help you if your software (PAF, in this case) can't use it. > 3. How large a hard disk? How big is your family? It's easy to build up huge files as you add people to your database, especially if you write lots of accompanying notes. I'm starting to scan in photos of family members when possible, linking the images to the individual record so I get a more personal family database; this also takes up lots of disk space. Drives are getting so cheap that you might as well get 40-80 MB of storage (heck, you can get a bare 105 Meg Quantum for as low as $299, and you can always add another hard drive to your system). > 4. What quality monitor? Printer? I prefer color monitors myself, but I'm prone to firing up a game every so often. Monochrome monitors tend to display text more crisply, I think. If you do want to add pictures, or scan in doodles drawn by the grandkids, VGA color is probably your best bet if using an IBM. Printers - I like the HP LaserJet IIP, but don't own one. You can get a good 24-pin dot-matrix printer which can output very-nearly-letter- quality text, as well as graphics, for $299 or less (I have the Epson LQ-510 myself). > 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? I prefer the 3 1/2 inch drives, mainly because the disks are much more durable; you can't bend them accidentally when inserting them in the drive. I think IBM is coming out (perhaps already has) with a 2.88 meg 3 1/2 inch floppy drive; most machines ship with 1.44 meg 3 1/2 inch drives. Software is usually available in 5 1/4 and 3 1/2 sizes, so that's not really a problem. I would also recommend a modem (Hayes compatible 2400 bps), maybe as an internal card. This way, many freeware and shareware utilities and software upgrades are available with just a phone call to the many BBS's and commercial services which carry genealogical information and programs. A modem such as the above should be less then $150. I hope I've answered your questions. If there's anything else you want to ask, feel free to email me at the address below. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: CT>z Newsgroup: soc.roots CT>z Subject: Computer hardware recommendations wanted CT>My two sisters and I are thinking about buying a PC for our mother, CT>the family genealogist. She doesn't have any background in computing, CT>but has recently started using an Epson (IBM clone) at her local library, CT>and is having lots of fun. CT>I'm interested in recommendations on what hardware to get. Whatever we CT>buy should be able to run PAF, since that's what she's familiar with. CT>Some specifics I'm wondering about are: CT> 1. Is a 286 computer sufficient, or do you recommend a 386? CT> 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? CT> 3. How large a hard disk? CT> 4. What quality monitor? Printer? CT> 5. What size floppy drive (5 1/4, or 3 1/2)? CT>Thanks in advance for any help you can give me. Please email if possible, CT>since I suspect this is old stuff to regulars in this group. Hi Charlie, First, the May 1991 issue of Compute magazine has an excellent article on choosing 386SX vs 386. That may solve question #1 for you as SXs are about the same price as a 286. One thing that never gets mentioned in any of these articles is the fact that we have chips 8088, 8086, 80286, 80386SX, 80386DX and 80486. The data bus on these chips range from 8 to 16 to 32 bits. However, we also have motherboards that have busses that range from 8 to 16 to 32 bit. It makes very little sense putting a 32 bit bus chip on a motherboard with a 16 bit buss so if the price difference does not favor the faster chip, then choose the 386SX on the 16 bit bus m/b. Second, the RAM can be added later and prices continue to drop. Start with at least 1 MB. PAF is only about 100 KB so would run in much less than 1 MB. Other programs may require a minimum of 512 KB. The hard disk is the next most important device. Get the biggest and fastest you can afford. I got 80 MB supposedly 17 MS access time. Don't settle for greater than 28 ms (ie. older drives were typically 65 ms). 9 ms would probably be a bit to expensive. Monitor: get at least 512 KB video RAM. A friend just confided that he wishes that is what he got. I am using a monochrome monitor but if you can afford it get color VGA or SuperVGA. It usually adds about $500 CAN$ to the price. Printer: 24-pin printers such as the PANASONIC KX-P1124 are in the $400 CAN$ price range and well worth the extra price. They have rear, bottom and front feed of which I use rear and front. The newer, cheaper KX-P1123 apparently doesn't have the front feed, though I believe it has more resident fonts. Also, the KX-P1124 has an empty chip socket which you can drop a RAM chip into to expand the print buffer from 6 KB to 38 KB. Simple instructions allow anyone who know how to use a Philips screwdriver and knows about the notches on a IC chip to do it. Disk drives: I got both 1.2 MB 5.25" AND 1.44 MB 3.5". Add about $95 CAN$ for the second drive. Well worth it. Software: PAF is currently available in version 2.2 but I haven't yet received my copy from LDS. There are many utilities around for PAF. I use FRU18 (FRU16 had at least one bug I found), PAFUTIL and several others. I use GED2TT which uses a GEDCOM file created by PAF and creates a Tiny Tafel or TT file for submission to the Tafel Matching System (TMS) or uploaded as a message to genealogical conferences. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: CT>z Newsgroup: soc.roots CT>z Subject: Computer hardware recommendations wanted CT> 2. How much RAM? 1 meg? 2 megs? RW> Second, the RAM can be added later and prices continue to drop. Start with at least 1 MB. PAF is only about 100 KB so would run in much less than 1 MB. Other programs may require a minimum of 512 KB. Software: PAF is currently available in version 2.2 but I haven't yet received my copy from LDS. ENDQUOTE> Hi Charlie, I just received my copy of PAFv2.2 and I note that the memory require- ment for it has gone up since my experience with v2.0. The program FR.EXE is now 200+ KB and the minimum RAM required is listed as 512 KB. The other requirements are PC/MS-DOS v2.0 or higher, two floppy drives or floppy and hard disk, optional printer and/or mouse. This version has built in ability to specify "print to disk file". I should have indicated the version number I was referring to. Hopefully this will get to you before you rush off and buy the machine. On the specific brand name side, I have a friend who bought a CompuAdd 286 and has been happy with it. Another friend bought a Gateway 386 and says their service is better than Northgate. My cousin bought a Northgate 386 and hasn't had any problems so far. I understand that Tandy/Radio Shack tends to try and lock their computer customers in by building the machines so you must use their hard disks, memory addons, etc. Compaq does this to some extent, too. Thus, unless you get solid evidence to the contrary, I would be careful buying those two machines. Charlie Towne Email: pstowne@zargon.lerc.nasa.gov MS 5-11 Phone: (216) 433-5851 NASA Lewis Research Center Cleveland, OH 44135